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Zymeric

Wizard
Platform
Steam
What do we Gnogment?

Runes, spells, stats, abilities, Ability damage or function multiplier. And who knows what else i'm missing?
It all falls under the use of sockets if you're changing or carrying over all your accumulated wealth in
stats well runes... right? Well, I find myself changing into new gear more than often if I am leveling
a character. So in like 5 levels i want to change my weapon to one i picked up, but wait?
I'm out of sockets, but my gloves and also 2 other items need to be carried up right? wrong no
sockets left. Only to find that I have to buy them in the shop for real cash....

Has anyone else done this? Felt like they had been stopped from all actions going forward in leveling
for fear of losing their precious runes ? Well I have and it feels wrong. I don't feel like I should
pay for this type of action in a game at all. Charge me for the a monthly fee and let sockets be
a vendor item along with the tools and some of the other things like that in the cash shop.
I'm sure there is a way to calculate a fair market monthly price for"Members" of this game.

And really people can add many of their own reasons why sockets are a bad idea. I would gladly give
this game a monthly subscription, But to pay individually for sockets in the process of gnogmenting
, it just seems wrong.
 
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Nyxxe

Priestess
Royal Guardian
Platform
PC, Steam
That thread really seems strange to me.
Maybe you should ask a bit more question in the world chat of the game as you will find there is a bunch of people ready to answer your questions.

You don't need every rune you're running on. You don't need every gear you're running on. You don't need to gnogment everything.

Did you do the crafting and gathering quests? Did you do Ginny's gnogmentation quest?
Cause those learn you a lot on how to get crafted gear.

This game have a lot of dedicated players since years. They know most of the answers to the questions you may ask yourself on the mechanics of the game. So I suggest you to talk more with them in the chat before doing a critic that seems unjustified on the forums.

Play, chat and have fun!
 
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Adricade

Great Adventurer
Characters
Ralthobel, Ralther
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
Don't listen to the naysayers. You aren't the only player experiencing this problem by any means. Since the recent update it's become increasingly more necessary to keep your gear fully upgraded using sockets, and this means spending real cash. 5 star epic gear helps, but you still need sockets for a strong build. It's called pay to win ;)
Again with that pay-to-win... "foolishness" for a lack of better term in respect with the community here... It's NOT pay to win! What? You want the entire game to be ABSOLUTELY free? And how would devs actually earn money with that? Not only do you get sockets as achievement prizes, as daily rewards and whatnot but now you are unhappy how the game requires you to use them! I saved so many sockets that I don't see me spending them at least for the next 50 levels, WITHOUT taking in account how many I may earn from daily rewards or achievements as I go. Nobody stops you from gnogmenting everything, you just have to decide which rune you need and what you don't. I have no issue progressing in the game without gnogging every rune I find. Participate in some events in-game or in the forums, earn some crowns and then use them to buy sockets. What's wrong with that? It is still free you just have to do it and that's what drive some people crazy. Well I don't know about a game that is COMPLETELY free. Or either it IS completely free it just requires you to be patient and play more. Wow... big deal...

p.s. - Oh and btw... yesterday I just earned the Master Gnogmenter or whatever it was called achievement after doing countless of gnogmentation tries already so yeah.
 

Nyxxe

Priestess
Royal Guardian
Platform
PC, Steam
I didn't say Zymeric is not putting enough effort, I said that he/she might be mistakenly understanding the gnogmentation work. The first smart move is to ask players in world chat or guild chat before doing a thread. And I won't judge the person even more that I'm not playing on the same server and don't know what he may have asked or not there.

Still, I'm seeing more and more threads on this forums that would find an easy answer given by players on the game chats. In my mind mmo are also done to socialize with other players. And as we have the chance to have a nice community, using the chat first seems a better option. Prisma time, I'm off!
 

Adricade

Great Adventurer
Characters
Ralthobel, Ralther
Platform
Android, PC
I am not attacking anybody, I am attacking the statement of being pay-to-win. You wanna know what pay2win is? Go to SWTOR. Or do you need me to provide you with other list of games which are horrific in their ways of hindering the player to progress?

I realize that it has become harder than it was but maybe it was intended. I completely agree with one thing you said and that is RIGHT rewards for Ardent Membership! The rewards for a subscription definitely have to be revamped. The only thing I deny is that this game is pay2win which is not. There are WALLS in place that make it harder with the aim to make you invest in the game, but what pay2win stands for is a WALL that cannot be broken without paying in the first place. Here however it is different. Because you can overcome this way for free. There are ways for you to do that. Even though I agree that it is not fully thought out of and forces the player it is not by any means unsurpass-able. That is the true definition of P2W.

A proper wall would allow players to achieve success even for free but harder. Case in point LOTRO. You can definitely grind through and purchase expansions without real cash.

I do not accuse anybody for not putting enough effort. I accuse someone for making a statement that is untrue. If the game was so unbearable to play and progress then by all means it should be in the P2W list, but it's not. I rarely make a statement like that. And the only case I know of that I was absolutely horrified from the game was in SWTOR. Invested so much into the game like you did for V&H and at the end of it I was hit with game decisions altering the whole fabric of the vanilla game that eventually forced me to deny subscription which lead me to another disappointment - unability to play properly without having cartel coins. If this is what you mean is happening with V&H I can stand beside you in that argument but otherwise no.
 
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KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
I will post my 2 cents regarding sockets in the form of 2 examples:

I've created Shaman and I really enjoy them. One is at level 22 and currently only has 3 combat spells and no reinforcement runes. If I wanted more spells or runes on my gear I would have to spend sockets. I only have a limited amount of them and I know I will need them for higher levels. So I chose not to put any time and effort into his build at this time, even though I really wanted to. It doesn't matter that he is low level, will quickly outgrow his gear and doesn't need an optimal setup for content at his stage. I wanted to put some work into his gear but couldn't pay the fee unless I wanted to suffer from lack of sockets down the road. Will new players have that restraint and foresight, or will they burn through their supply?

That leads me to my 2nd example. I have a friend who is struggling to survive against the level 85 elders. He is level 85 and his attack and defense rating were 4.0 or below. He had around 15 sockets left and wanted to save them until he hit 90 for his final build. For those who aren't aware, a fully socketed build will cost 25 to 30 sockets or more. In the end, after many failed attempts staying alive at the 85s, we decided it was best for him to spend the sockets upgrading his gear in order to get past the gate.

Sockets are an important source of revenue for the devs. They are not vanity items though. I think that the number of socketed slots on gear should be reduced. Perhaps 15 to 20 sockets max for a fully slotted build instead of 25 to 30.
 

Erwalt

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
In my experience it is possible to make a very powerful build just by using 2 reinforcement runes per a piece of gear which is free of sockets. The only thing needed is a bit of planning what runes to pick to min-max.
 
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Muhgi

Squirrel
Characters
Muhgi, Angus McFife XIII
Platform
Android
I found even pre-update around level 20-40 I started needing either Legendary Gear crafted by higher-level players or to gnogment the more useful runes for my play style (on a Marksman Hunter).
 
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Zymeric

Wizard
Platform
Steam
A major thing that I want to further point out. I want to freely be able to use gnogmenting without it being able to cost me money, because I want to use it a whole bunch until i figure out what it is I like or want. This means I want to change the setup as much as i possible want to, so I can research what i like and what i don't. So if i have to buy something a whole lot just to throw it away because i know i'm not gonna keep it forever. It feels a total waste to charge someone for something like water in a game. Knowing damn well i need to drink.
 

Zymeric

Wizard
Platform
Steam
I don't mind a flat rate bypass option on sockets and other such consumables though because buying them isn't an option always, but i can afford a monthly fee...
 

Zymeric

Wizard
Platform
Steam
That thread really seems strange to me.
Maybe you should ask a bit more question in the world chat of the game as you will find there is a bunch of people ready to answer your questions.

You don't need every rune you're running on. You don't need every gear you're running on. You don't need to gnogment everything.

Did you do the crafting and gathering quests? Did you do Ginny's gnogmentation quest?
Cause those learn you a lot on how to get crafted gear.

This game have a lot of dedicated players since years. They know most of the answers to the questions you may ask yourself on the mechanics of the game. So I suggest you to talk more with them in the chat before doing a critic that seems unjustified on the forums.

Play, chat and have fun!
This is about the use of sockets while gnogmenting, i don't think it's relevant to question experience or even a players ability whatsoever.
I simply want to explore why it cost sockets to keep the runes you already have. if i have spent my money on a rune i want to keep it for my gear forever. and be able to keep it applied on this character. Even if that number of runes is limited to per gear item, I want to keep them once i have it.

But you went straight into my ability to know when to use sockets, there shouldnt even be sockets is my thing. like why have to plan out the use of free ones when i know it should only cost in game type currency to get them in the first place.
 

Nyxxe

Priestess
Royal Guardian
Platform
PC, Steam
We don't agree on that point. Which is why I pointed out that talking with experienced players in game chat is making it easier to understand game mechanics. That you don't agree with how the games work is a thing but I doubt they would change it for you.

You totally have the right to have an opinion. I tried to help in fact. You may keep on your ground, I'm staying with my ideas. That's all.
 

Ekimie

Hunter
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
You are not charged for a rune you already have, if you were to keep that exact rune. You are, however, charged for a more powerful version of that rune , as should bego. After all you put a new one on.
 
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Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie
Platform
PC
You are not charged for a rune you already have, if you were to keep that exact rune. You are, however, charged for a more powerful version of that rune , as should bego. After all you put a new one on.
Yes, this is correct. Also, if you want to remove one rune and replace it with another, and if you're over the limit of free slots on that piece of gear (whether for active runes or passive runes...and note that there is a distinction between the two, and that each has their individual limits), it will charge a socket.

When you gnog two items together, it will automatically add ALL the runes from the two items onto the finished product. If you click on a rune in the center of the second window, you will remove it from the finished item. This is important to be aware of. You don't have to accept the standard gnog that the UI is suggesting!

Also note that it is possible to transfer runes from one piece of gear to another for free, so long as you keep them all together. Imagine that you're gnogging together two 5-star crafted wizzie belts. Both have a passive rune boosting ice affinity and a passive rune boosting a feat (ice floes, I think?) One belt has reinforcement runes for expertise and blasting. The other has a beserk rune on it. You can choose between the base stats on one belt or the other in the first window of the gnogging process. Simple enough. If you take the default gnog suggested by the UI, it will probably cost you more sockets than if you take the "budget plan" approach. As long as you don't add to or alter the runes on the belt with expertise and blasting, you won't have to spend any additional sockets! Also, if you keep all of those runes as is and just add the one rune for beserk, it will only charge you ONE socket! And when you start doing more complex gnogs -- where you're combining about 6 different pieces of gear (or more) -- having a plan and figuring out the order in which you want to combine items is really important! The more pre-planning you do before you gnog, the less likely you are to spend sockets unintentionally. I liken it to spreading your clothing across your bed, before you figure out how you're going to get dressed up for a fancy do. You want to have all your different options organized, know exactly how you're going to combine your outfit options, and make sure that you don't try putting your shoes on before your pantyhose! :ROFLMAO:

In short, if you want to waste sockets, then don't calculate exactly how many sockets it will cost you before you begin gnogging and don't "proofread" your work on the last screen before you hit that final button. If you want to spend your sockets wisely, then learn more advanced gnogging techniques and make certain that you understand the principles of why it charges sockets.
 
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Zymeric

Wizard
Platform
Steam
I dont like it, it ruins the game for me in a lot of ways to be frankly honest.
 

Joleen

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Kavita, Katona, Toget, Avani
Platform
Android, PC
Sockets have always been a subject of great controversy. I've always felt there should be a way in-game to get them because they are necessary. They are even more necessary now than they were in the past. I see what Zymeric (and many others) is saying!
 
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Joleen

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Kavita, Katona, Toget, Avani
Platform
Android, PC
I'd like to add that by in-game way to get them, I mean, a way to CRAFT sockets for the complete FTP gamers. Socketing is FUN, it adds key, and multifaceted changes to gear that is completely personalized. I love that, and I love sockets. THUS, I've always been socket-addicted. I also love spending on games I love, something not everyone can do, and I cannot spend like I want to any longer.

The reason many people come to the game and complain that sockets are PTW is because sockets make such a huge difference, but aside from the few you get from quests - well, you have to buy them! And I've seen way too many new players walk away from the game over sockets.

I want to see this game succeed and continue to evolve. While many of the recent changes were huge and hard to swallow, a ton of things that needed fixed for a long time were fixed.

Long time players of this game can't keep getting on the forums devouring our young. When a player comes to the forums (something VERY hard for most to do) and complains about something, all too often I see insults hurled instead of constructive advice.

Advising people to not socket until high levels doesn't work for everyone. It never worked for me, because of my game style. Something as wonderful and sexy as socketing gear shouldn't be so cash-heavy.
 

Karma

Citizen
Characters
Karma, Boot
Platform
Steam
Sockets are an important source of revenue for the devs. They are not vanity items though. I think that the number of socketed slots on gear should be reduced. Perhaps 15 to 20 sockets max for a fully slotted build instead of 25 to 30.
Yep! They are NOT vanity items!

I'm not ready to start saying its becoming "pay to win" but, IMO, there is a pay wall forming and IMO its getting higher.
Sockets have been entirely removed from Ardent Society. Sockets in the monthly calendar have been reduced from 5 to 2.
Sockets have become necessary earlier and more often because of changes in the game. This is especially true for those of us who mostly solo.
The in-game opportunities to earn free sockets on a reoccurring basis have been pretty much been eliminated because of exploits. Yes, you can earn them during events but they also carry an expiration date. Other "adjustments" have been made because of exploits as well.

The issue is, the developers need money.
Subscription games are not viable in most cases. That has been proven again and again. The whole idea of "free to play" is that many of us pay for those that cannot or will not make store purchases. (there are many on a fixed income and others with limited discretionary funds)
I can't help but wonder if those "quick fixes" to close exploits didn't "shoot themselves in the foot".

There are 2 groups of players, iOS players and Steam players, who cannot sell their store purchases to other players thereby completely eliminating them from the "free to play" pool to support those who don't make store purchases.
Crown bags, which I suspect were a big seller, are a thing of the past. This keeps those who can't make store purchases from buying crowns with ingame gold. Again denting that "free to play" model.

There are many who are upset about the changes to the Ardent Society.
More who are upset about teleport costs and other game changes. (I won't repeat what some have expressed as to their preception of "real reason" why)
I can't help but wonder that people who enjoy helping others are going to start hesitating to help with elders because of the additional costs.
Expecially as their Ardent Society memberships expire and are not renewed because it was a choice between Ardent Society or sockets.
IMO, that will be a very sad day if people start hesitating or declining to help because of costs.

The community is what makes this game so extraordinary.
During the last Google Playstore , I witness many long time experienced players sacrificing their playtime to simply sit in chat and answer the new players numerous questions. Not just for an hour or two but in some cases for several days. I can't think of ANY game where that would occur.

We lost a lot of high level, long time players with the Starfall expansion. I wonder of the same is about to happen again.
Many are patient, awaiting the rest of this expansion. Some have said they are already starting to look around.

Banking mostly on sockets for revenue is a mistake IMO.

Perhaps its time to revisit those "quick fixes" and come up with something more viable!??
Something which does not alienate many of the high level, long time players!??

Thanks for reading.

Best regards!
 
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VHPlayer

Reader
Platform
iOS
In my opinion, one way to partially fix this would be to not charge sockets for class spells (this applies to weapons only obviously). That would allow players access to a complete build with regards to casting ability, meanwhile reserving the elite nature of full builds to those with socket expenditure. My experience, prior to the update obviously, was that I was able to be moderately successful simply by gnogging a weapon full of spells without spending on enhancement and reinforcement runes until very late game. Perhaps this would be something that the devs would be agreeable to.

That being said, I'm still inclined to agree with the arguments about this becoming "pay to win", especially the post above from Karma.
 

Roak

Squirrel
Platform
PC
. I have a friend who is struggling to survive against the level 85 elders

Hmm...just jumping on the occasion to remind everyone that,last time i checked,the level 85 Elders are broken since Sea and Earth update.

*Boinks!*
 
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