Heykathster

Squirrel
Characters
Kaasan, Heyboo, Daanger, Ok Bumi
Platform
iOS, PC
Now people might say, "But what about the mana issue for ES? THAT's what makes ES inferior to LW!" (Coz we all know everyone gets fired up with mana issues) Then might as well say that SPs are inferior to FWs coz an SP in US2 chugs stacks of mana, where as my FW use about 50-60 per run, and we deal almost the same damage by the end of the run.
I’m so mana screwed. Why did you have to bring this up?!? XD
 

Giruv

Merchant
Royal Guardian
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
"But what about the mana issue for ES? THAT's what makes ES inferior to LW!"
I think this part is wrong because Lightning Warrior mana issue is way worst than Earth Shaman, one simple reason is the 6s cooldown spell for ES is only 50 mana cost while LW 6s spell is 150 mana, which make LW mana is way worst than ES, granted the LW go all out.
 
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InSaNiA

Arch Wizard
Characters
ExPuRoSiOn (Fire Wiz), Hawkeye but Purple (Marksman)
Platform
Android
I think this part is wrong because Lightning Warrior mana issue is way worst than Earth Shaman, one simple reason is the 6s cooldown spell for ES is only 50 mana cost while LW 6s spell is 150 mana, which make LW mana is way worst than ES, granted the LW go all out.
Really? Well darn. Coz I never heard any LW I teamed up with complain about mana, unlike ES that use a whole stack of mana pots for every single raid.
 
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Giruv

Merchant
Royal Guardian
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
Really? Well darn. Coz I never heard any LW I teamed up with complain about mana, unlike ES that use a whole stack of mana pots for every single raid.
Yeah there are just not that many tryhard LW in US2 I think, but it is one of the main reason I rarely use my LW gear, because the mana consumption is really bad unless I ignore Thunderbird strike completely.
 

Giruv

Merchant
Royal Guardian
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
A quick comparison of the 2 class main threat generating spell.

Earth Shaman
1619765699136.png1619765738904.png1619765783316.png

Lightning Warrior
1619766606078.png1619766537359.png1619766566670.png

I believe the difference in these spell is what make technically LW will never lose aggro compared to ES granted both try as hard. Not to mention Spurring Jolt CDR cut, Thunderbird Strike procing extra Thunderbolt, and Lightning and Thunderbolt both scale of 500% of ability power so when glory, flux, berserk kicks in LW will be even more ahead.
 

Heykathster

Squirrel
Characters
Kaasan, Heyboo, Daanger, Ok Bumi
Platform
iOS, PC
Really? Well darn. Coz I never heard any LW I teamed up with complain about mana, unlike ES that use a whole stack of mana pots for every single raid.
lol you do run with me tho expur. I get the shakes just thinking about mana changes lmao. In a mana 12 step program... crying myself to sleep..... klae uses almost no mana though. *shrugs* she’s not full earth tho but still...
 

Heykathster

Squirrel
Characters
Kaasan, Heyboo, Daanger, Ok Bumi
Platform
iOS, PC
Last edited
A quick comparison of the 2 class main threat generating spell.

Earth Shaman
View attachment 12502View attachment 12503View attachment 12504

Lightning Warrior
View attachment 12509View attachment 12507View attachment 12508

I believe the difference in these spell is what make technically LW will never lose aggro compared to ES granted both try as hard. Not to mention Spurring Jolt CDR cut, Thunderbird Strike procing extra Thunderbolt, and Lightning and Thunderbolt both scale of 500% of ability power so when glory, flux, berserk kicks in LW will be even more ahead.
Lightning tanks lose threat to earth a lot I think? Unless nobody is lightning? It’s hard to know... for sure.
The cool down is insane on lightning spells. Daang. (Jealous!!!) but the difference in threat when using all three is also insane.

Base threat only:
The three threat shots for lightning warrior = 56.5k base threat generation. The three threat shots for earth sham= 255.8k base threat.
That isn’t even taking into account mastery and spell power increases.

Factoring in Cooldown and Cooldown rate And craig-strike-earth-shard-Cooldown and zephyrs enclave.... (Cooldown Rate being something every shammy should be (and likely is) absolutely obsessive about...)
And factoring in rocky (summons) who generates a heap of threat all by himself, and retaliation effect that crits.... plus near constant voidstrike....

I don’t know Giruv. It seems like saying that no shaman can ever get aggro on a lightning warrior is a little... strongly worded.

I’ll have to see how it goes in a few days when relics run dry.

**edit just realized we should really add ground slam to the list of shaman threat generating shots.
 

Giruv

Merchant
Royal Guardian
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
That isn’t even taking into account mastery and spell power increases.
It is important to count it because Lightningbolt and Thunderbolt both bossted by a rate 500% of ability power. So at +70% ability power it get +350% boost
 
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Heykathster

Squirrel
Characters
Kaasan, Heyboo, Daanger, Ok Bumi
Platform
iOS, PC
Lightning tanks lose threat to earth a lot I think? Unless nobody is lightning? It’s hard to know... for sure.
The cool down is insane on lightning spells. Daang. (Jealous!!!) but the difference in threat when using all three is also insane.

Base threat only:
The three threat shots for lightning warrior = 56.5k base threat generation. The three threat shots for earth sham= 255.8k base threat.
That isn’t even taking into account mastery and spell power increases.

Factoring in Cooldown and Cooldown rate And craig-strike-earth-shard-Cooldown and zephyrs enclave.... (Cooldown Rate being something every shammy should be (and likely is) absolutely obsessive about...)
And factoring in rocky (summons) who generates a heap of threat all by himself, and retaliation effect that crits.... plus near constant voidstrike....

I don’t know Giruv. It seems like saying that no shaman can ever get aggro on a lightning warrior is a little... strongly worded.

I’ll have to see how it goes in a few days when relics run dry.
It is important to count it because Lightningbolt and Thunderbolt both bossted by a rate 500% of ability power. So at +70% ability power it get +350% boost
Well you’re the numbers pro boss. I’ll take your word for it and eat mud when relics leave. *cries* For now it hasn’t been a problem getting threat.
Gonna have to be happy with making sure I can out threat dps then xD which is all that matters really right?
 
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V

Mad Otter Games
Developer
It seems like US2 and US3 are experiencing the opposite tanking situation. I've found it's nearly impossible to lose aggro to an earth shaman while playing lightning, and DPS classes aren't even remotely close on the threat radar to mention.
 

Giruv

Merchant
Royal Guardian
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
We just play around for a bit doing duo elder run Lightning Warrior and Earth Shaman, from what I see LW is just slightly ahead above Earth Shaman, more often than not it comes down to who hit first win.
 

InSaNiA

Arch Wizard
Characters
ExPuRoSiOn (Fire Wiz), Hawkeye but Purple (Marksman)
Platform
Android
Last edited
It seems like US2 and US3 are experiencing the opposite tanking situation. I've found it's nearly impossible to lose aggro to an earth shaman while playing lightning, and DPS classes aren't even remotely close on the threat radar to mention.
Yeah. There's only a handful of people that are really trying hard or doing their best to bring 100% out of their subclass. The rest play the game like how normal/average people do (you know, just having a good time, picking up whatever good stuff they find, and not really paying 100% attention to their class and stats and what not or experiment every day). Maybe that's why people say it's lonely being at the top, so why bother?
 
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sirbabbo

Guest
Going back to the subject for me, I do think one of the es spells needs to have a charge just like lw to make it fair, instead of talent points into wind. Personal note; If you have two tanks, I think having two sets of gear helps to switch it around.

Also we have different groups of elders and raids but there is a huge difference between bad, good, great and elite tanks. I think the two tanks can co exist if they know a good way to battle it out but at the end of the day, all classes could tank but not be the most durable.

I do agree that people are in different mind sets to raids and elders with Some take it serious and some don’t affects the tanking. Me I don’t care, I rather have a fun run then a serious run.
 

Helos

Citizen
Characters
Helos, Helox, Heloq
Platform
iOS
Ya, so again, with the DPS charts. The thread was not about DPS. Both in their own right can put out great numbers. On US3, lightning holds way more threat and never loses it to ES from what I have seen out of elder runs. This is because as previously stated....their best DPS abilities are built into the tree, thereby giving them a threat advantage by gaining all the bonus threat that the tanking tree has to offer. Versus ES who has to use other trees to remain competitive, thereby not gaining threat bonus. I don't know if you just have bad LW warriors or what but, using the people who are stand-out try-hards (like myself) for example is never a great way to gauge usually. But both my LW and ES are both fully legendary amazing gear, with full sockets, and fully buffed. Those numbers you are putting up for ES damage for 95's are very similar to the ones I'm doing on earth as well.

I can tell you lightning can still easily out threat, with the same or similar damage, which is what the original post is about. You can make either class put out a ton of DPS. It's about the tanking synergy between threat and DPS and the lack of mobility on the ES's part, versus the extreme mobility of LW. A LW can stack all DPS gear, and due to way better healing options, and reactive "Oh !@#$" abilities, still tank just fine. ES on the other hand doesn't have that option, unless they sacrifice quite a bit of damage.

Gale Force is a joke at best, and often doesn't even connect because it's so janky. You can be standing in front of a mob, already attacking it, hit gale force, and it will take a second or two to connect, which means if you accidentally hit a feat in between, it doesn't connect, and then is a waste of a 30 second attack speed buff.
 

Heykathster

Squirrel
Characters
Kaasan, Heyboo, Daanger, Ok Bumi
Platform
iOS, PC
Last edited
We just play around for a bit doing duo elder run Lightning Warrior and Earth Shaman, from what I see LW is just slightly ahead above Earth Shaman, more often than not it comes down to who hit first win.
Giruv and I both passed the threat ball back and forth quite a bit. But his LW still overall won on my ES... it was still a nice, solid, somewhat consistent volley though. <3 And ES tore up threat at jac bc.... wiiiide range aoe tremors baby. I still say there's a time and a place for each style of tank. And I still agree completely that stupid gale force is ridiculous.
 

Heykathster

Squirrel
Characters
Kaasan, Heyboo, Daanger, Ok Bumi
Platform
iOS, PC
It seems like US2 and US3 are experiencing the opposite tanking situation. I've found it's nearly impossible to lose aggro to an earth shaman while playing lightning, and DPS classes aren't even remotely close on the threat radar to mention.
It can be really hard to keep threat off some dps toons. A really strong shadow will pick it up last 30% of the boss. A really strong fire wiz will have it first 30% usually. Keeping dps-lunatics alive takes a stinking village xD. (Surprisingly, the worst culprits? Buffed-out-no-joke-breaks-the-game holy priests. I only know one like that. But it's a fight keeping threat off him in raids.)
 

Ekimie

Hunter
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
It can be really hard to keep threat off some dps toons. A really strong shadow will pick it up last 30% of the boss. A really strong fire wiz will have it first 30% usually. Keeping dps-lunatics alive takes a stinking village xD. (Surprisingly, the worst culprits? Buffed-out-no-joke-breaks-the-game holy priests. I only know one like that. But it's a fight keeping threat off him in raids.)
Or don't, they'll learn soon enough to not throw it all of they die a few times :p
 
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sirbabbo

Guest
It can be really hard to keep threat off some dps toons. A really strong shadow will pick it up last 30% of the boss. A really strong fire wiz will have it first 30% usually. Keeping dps-lunatics alive takes a stinking village xD. (Surprisingly, the worst culprits? Buffed-out-no-joke-breaks-the-game holy priests. I only know one like that. But it's a fight keeping threat off him in raids.)
Wow no love for the fury warrior tank. :) lol...
different play style and different situation.

Idk I think both tanks are fine when they are on their own, I do think es just need some tweaks for like helos suggested which in all honestly would help. It’s seems weird the aoe attack doesn’t really do much vs a lws.

But I think the art of tanking is more about powerful builds that zip you along faster, which is where a lw comes handy if they take 10 points from the fury line and have a charge, def can bring groups in together faster!! Need to see kave do it, like a hotwheels car with red and blue lines everywhere. But for the es it is longer for them to group groups and then 25% damage is loss due to this.

So I think the overall analysis is correct in that es is behind on tanking as a whole but when momentum generates can tank but the lw it depends on how faster they are then other classes and then the spells they use. Some lw add dps spells to not have the threat keep generating. Lots of factors to consider.
 

Heykathster

Squirrel
Characters
Kaasan, Heyboo, Daanger, Ok Bumi
Platform
iOS, PC
Or don't, they'll learn soon enough to not throw it all of they die a few times :p
haha you’d think.... but I also play shadow and instead I just learned to be cool with death. He’s my buddy. I invited him to my birthday party. 🥳😁
 

Heykathster

Squirrel
Characters
Kaasan, Heyboo, Daanger, Ok Bumi
Platform
iOS, PC
Wow no love for the fury warrior tank. :) lol...
different play style and different situation.

Idk I think both tanks are fine when they are on their own, I do think es just need some tweaks for like helos suggested which in all honestly would help. It’s seems weird the aoe attack doesn’t really do much vs a lws.

But I think the art of tanking is more about powerful builds that zip you along faster, which is where a lw comes handy if they take 10 points from the fury line and have a charge, def can bring groups in together faster!! Need to see kave do it, like a hotwheels car with red and blue lines everywhere. But for the es it is longer for them to group groups and then 25% damage is loss due to this.

So I think the overall analysis is correct in that es is behind on tanking as a whole but when momentum generates can tank but the lw it depends on how faster they are then other classes and then the spells they use. Some lw add dps spells to not have the threat keep generating. Lots of factors to consider.
Sorry about the fury warrior tank. I’ve never actually met a fury that feels completely comfortable claiming tank status. And I’ve never met one that likes to tank except for as an absolute last resort. Lol. *cheers* I’m sure you are amazing at it!!! Don’t let my lack of fury tank experience get you down. Xoxo.
 
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