Halleebell

Squirrel
Characters
Hallee/Freyra
Platform
  1. iOS
  2. PC
Last edited
Ehh that’s a hit or miss. I religiously use buffs while gathering. The gathering/crafting potions I usually use when I know I’ll be gathering longer then 30 minutes or when I have a mass amount of motes and materials to refine. I typically gather with blue supply’s and only use green when blues run dry and I’m still grabbing plenty’s. I can not tell you how many times Iv gathered and ended up with maybe 30 supply that dropped, 1 gob and no rare finds. Or a few rare finds no gobs and maybe 50 blue supplies. (Thank god I was playing during the black out so I have a ton of gobs that I can use) I could use 300 blue supplies and get a whole lot of nothing, even the gem drop can be bad depending on the node. The gathering system before the changes due to exploiters was so much better and player friendly. I would go to whatever zone hit every let’s say mining node a handful of times and whatever one gave me the most resources was the one I’d sit at for 30 minutes to an hour. If it stopped dropping resources I’d start the process all over again. With plenty’s you get what you get and a good majority of the time it’s very little. Then you have to add onto the fact that if you don’t have store bought tools you need to carry multiple sets to get the most material out of a node. It’s a lot. Honestly almost too much. Though I still would not put this game in the pay to win category or even pay to play. Though there is most definitely pay for convenience.

I’d like to also add so many things have changed over the years from account bound store bought tools( now soul bound) to the decrease of gathering resources, how meaningful the rare drops are the list goes on. Over time these things have become less player friendly and more grind oriented. For some those changes were a plus for others it was the beginning of the end playing V&H.
 

Deri

Servant of Mallok
Characters
Deri, Sister Derishy, Gruebitten
Platform
  1. iOS
Starting players are level locked into low level triad pots. They will not have the garden level for high level herbs, may not have friends to provide them, or extra gold to buy them. They won't have had time to collect many blue or even green supplies, so they'll be using white. I think some people have forgotten what is like to not be sitting on a mountain of in game wealth.
 

Xantia

Arch Wizard
Characters
Xantia
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
If we use the boosts and buff's we do get supplies and motes. I was gathering and used blue supplies (because I vendor the green and white to buy blue), I use potion of the triad, herbs, etc. I started without using anything and slowly added all the buff's I had to see what happened. I even got cornucopias gathering in the village.
I was explaining to an established player on US2 how to maximize the gathering buff's. I was surprised they didn't know already. I was thinking maybe the forum needs a tutorial (Oh wait, we already have one https://villagersandheroes.com/forums/threads/crafting-gathering-guide.1959/ We've been given so many tools to help ourselves over the years, it seems even older players have forgotten the shortcuts to greater success.
Agreed, but can we level-up our Villager skills at the same rate as our Combat skills? If not, then we can't craft our own gear and consumables, when we need them. 😬

And how can we expect new players to know how to make the best use of buffs... or even afford them? They can't grow their own Verda, they need to level-up cooking to make Triads. They don't have much gold to buy items from others... low-level nodes drop less valuable gems... 🤷‍♀️

Motes are a luxury and many players dislike crafting/refining without them. The number of items required to master a recipe... the cost of Salvage kits... crafting gold costs... ALL of this contributes to players being unable to afford crafting their own level-appropriate gear and consumables... UNLESS... they buy and resell Crown items. 🪙🪙🪙

Which is fine, I know the Otters need the game to be profitable. 🙂

However, I wonder if it's more profitable for players to hurry through the game and skip most crafting, because it's too expensive... OR... if it would be more profitable, to make gathering/crafting less expensive and more rewarding... so players will be able to level-up their Villager skills, along with their Combat... and want to buy Vaults to store crafted gear for rebirth... buy Bags to craft 50-100 items at once... buy Motes to speed crafting/refining... create alts for crafting Specs... etc. 😃👍
 
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Halleebell

Squirrel
Characters
Hallee/Freyra
Platform
  1. iOS
  2. PC
Starting players are level locked into low level triad pots. They will not have the garden level for high level herbs, may not have friends to provide them, or extra gold to buy them. They won't have had time to collect many blue or even green supplies, so they'll be using white. I think some people have forgotten what is like to not be sitting on a mountain of in game wealth.
1000% this! This is why Iv been venomously talking about this. I recently started over on us1 yea I had some things sitting from the black out and being apart AS for so long. But I did not have gold or a mass of supply’s. It was an eye opener for sure.
 

Deri

Servant of Mallok
Characters
Deri, Sister Derishy, Gruebitten
Platform
  1. iOS
I personally think the amount of grind for leveling crafting is fine, but opinions will vary on that obviously. You don't hit serious grind until around level 70, by which time you should expect to work for each level (imo). I always recommend that players do the first rebirth right away, as it gives time for mats from ranching and garden produce to catch up.

I think that if we have dropped gear, then what is the logic behind not being supposed to wear it?
 
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Deri

Servant of Mallok
Characters
Deri, Sister Derishy, Gruebitten
Platform
  1. iOS
1000% this! This is why Iv been venomously talking about this. I recently started over on us1 yea I had some things sitting from the black out and being apart AS for so long. But I did not have gold or a mass of supply’s. It was an eye opener for sure.

Yes! I started a brand new toon on EU1 last year. Since it was another server I couldn't bring anything over from my main to help her out. I did have AS and friends that welcomed me into a guild and guild village with max stations right away, but still, as you say, it was an eye opener. I can imagine how it would have been without knowing anyone.
 

Xantia

Arch Wizard
Characters
Xantia
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
I personally think the amount of grind for leveling crafting is fine, but opinions will vary on that obviously. You don't hit serious grind until around level 70, by which time you should expect to work for each level (imo). I always recommend that players do the first rebirth right away, as it gives time for mats from ranching and garden produce to catch up.

I think that if we have dropped gear, then what is the logic behind not being supposed to wear it?
Agreed and there's nothing wrong with using dropped gear... especially if it has good stats. 😉👍

I just feel that when the majority of players recommend waiting to craft gear, until later in the game... then maybe the Otters should look at the process and see what might be done to make gear-crafting more fun, affordable and rewarding. Because the more we can do in-game, the longer we'll stay. 🙂
 
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Aaliagh

Wizard
Food for thought: my lvl 48 holy priest with 4 rebirths has resting "average" (one green arrow) holy power, 496 at 57%. My lvl 95 lvl 35 elder with 5 rebirths ice wiz has "fantastic" (4 green arrows) resting ice power 33.9K at 71%..... priest has mostly rare equipment, ice wiz is equipped top notch legendary. Both have 40 talent points in holy/ice power. More food for thought: level 76! nature hunter does more damage in group at event zone ladder than my ice wiz. Talk about balance....whatever was achieved by all these changes, one thing it isn't is balance.
 

Renaiss

Reader
I feel like choosing a class, should be about estetics and play style. What looks good to you? Do you want to be dps, tank or heals? Do you enjoy melee or ranged or a bit of both? 🤷‍♀️
Absolutely! Once players have narrowed their choices based on DPS/tank/healer and ranged/melee, all that's left is deciding which "look" (outfit, weapon, color scheme, etc.) they prefer. (This is one reason it would be nice if the character creation system were updated to accurately reflect the new "roles" of each subclass.)
I feel like the term "balanced", should mean that all classes have equal, basic abilities and whether or not we're OP, should depend on how we build our toon. Do we build a glass-cannon or a tank? Do we build for solo or group play? Do we focus on one Mastery or Hybrid? Do we invest in mana/health or use pots? 🤓
Exactly! No one should be at a disadvantage for at-level quests or bounties because of the class/subclass they chose. Everyone should also have options to build & equip their characters to suit their own playstyle and goals. Before the mana build, I never thought any subclass was OP: I just thought some players put more effort into their builds/gear than other players (like me) did.
All crafted weapons would start with 3 damage feats (to help players survive at low-levels), buff feats (such as Nature's Veil) won't be added until the 30s - 40s (keep it simple, while players are learning).
All of your balance ideas are really good, but this is my favorite. :love:

Stop making your game like ever other cookie cutter mmo out there, and instead of nerfing everyone, and murdering fun with the nonsense, that everyone should stay in there role, and shut their mouth, you should have just improve the other classes instead.
Regarding "fun", in his State of Balance Discussion thread, V said, "Yes, classes should feel enjoyable. No, that should not come at the cost of balance." The problem is that many/most players would reverse these sentiments. Yes, classes should be balanced. No, that should not come at the cost of enjoyability. On the issue of nerfing versus improving where needed, I think this comes down to intention, which is to "balance the classes for group content". This evidently includes having a specific "role" for each subclass in group content, and this may have been the rationale for making non-mana changes to every subclass instead of just improving the ones that needed help. That's not a defense of the changes (they're why I quit), but a possible explanation for them.
 

Ventara

Villager
Platform
  1. iOS
Ice Wizard Changes – Ice is Cool Again

Sevrendel (Sev) is a 95 ice wizard with 5 rebirths, dungeoneering in excess of 50, and elder level 17.

Gear Contributions:
The following was recorded while un-buffed, and not in Blighted Isles, but raid relics were active.

Attack 8.8
Defense 7.4
Ice Power: +78%
Physical Protection: 42%
Magic Protection: 30%
Health: 203k
Health Regen: 116/s
Mana: 3739
Mana Regen: 13/s
Mana Efficiency: 19%
Attack Speed: 23%
Cooldown Rate: 48%
Critical Chance: 19%
Critical Damage: 190%

Poise 34.7k
Flux 34.5k
Voidstrike 24.8k
Glory 20.2k
Blasting 14.7k
Magic find: 13.6k
Lifesteal 10.7k
Onslaught 8890
Juggernaut 4722

Talent Build:
Pure Ice 1:
Max all lines in ice. Max Frostfire and put the remaining talents in arcane line 5 (mana). Bring scorns and mana pots.

Pure Ice 2: Max all lines in ice. Max Arcane line 5 (mana regen), and put the remaining 10 points into frostfire. Swap Ice Storm out for Bitter Chill. Usually no need for mana pots.

Chart Data:
Content type, talent build, top 3 dps, and Sev’s performance numbers. All numbers are in damage done.

EZ Ladder, Pure Ice 2
Sev 76.6m
Hunter 60.9m
Priest 52.2m

EZ Ladder, Pure Ice 2
Hunter 100m
Shaman 84.2m
Sev 71.6m

EZ Ladder, partial, Pure Ice 2
Hunter 114m
Wizard 87.5m
Sev 87.5m

EZ Ladder, Pure Ice 1
Sev 108m
Hunter 97.4m
Shaman 79.3m

EZ Ladder, Pure Ice 1
Hunter 59.5m
Shaman 52.3m
Hunter 43.2m
Sev 36.4m

95 Elders, Pure Ice 2
Wizard 145m
Sev 105m
Shaman 87.2m

95 Elders, Pure Ice 1
Priest 133m
Fire Wizard 101m
Hunter 101m
Sev 91.1m

Heroic Swamp, Pure Ice 2
Priest 130m
Warrior 122m
Sev 110m

Gold Swamp, Pure Ice 2.
Fire Wizard 195m
Sev 150m
Shaman 111m

Sev has been able to solo platinum through all raids, and has completed solo H10 Woods. Other Heroics have yet to be attempted.

Conclusion:
Overall, the recent changes have enabled the Ice Wizard to get within the top third of the dps charts at max level. Sev can be outdone by other classes of similar gear, but has good options for survivability and control where they do not. This is the goal stated by the Otters. Thank you to V and anyone else involved for bringing the ice wizard into viability at end game.

Fun things I really like about the changes (opinion only):
Independence of spells.
Only one mechanic of many has one spell build on landing a freeze – this increases flexibility of approach to mobs in different situations.
Rogue-like build up/finishing move style single target (and aoe if you choose ice storm). This is fun – and it doesn’t restrict your approach to mobs.
Occasionally, we get damage over time with hypothermia. This is a completely new type of damage for the ice wizard, and a nice buff.
Option for more than one powerful aoe debuff. Absolutely love the control that the debuffs give – I’m convinced that the attack speed slow from Bitter Chill is why I can defeat some of the bosses in woods...or even get through the spiders to them. Also, it’s just fun to watch the boss moving in slow motion like we do when all the mages die in Rift.
 

Xantia

Arch Wizard
Characters
Xantia
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
I've started a poll, to help give the Otters some constructive feedback and an overview of our feelings about the State of Balance and Mana. I hope you'll vote in the poll and encourage others to vote, tyvm. 🙇‍♀️

 
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Red Wizard

Arch Wizard
Characters
Red Wizard, Anyone
Platform
  1. PC
I stopped playing the game 4 to 5 years ago because of real life commitments and also the game became boring, tedious and a grind. Even back then there was talk about class balancing. I can see that even after that long nothing has changed. Even 5 years ago it started with lets get rid of solo content and make the game more playing as a group. Then some warrior complained about hunters and wizards being too strong so they nerfed these 2 classes. There was a lot of hue and cry but devs did not listen to the majority. The addition of feats added more to the confusion and complexity of the game. It takes ages and lot of effort and gold to finally get the gear you want. Is that level of grind really worth it? Why are the devs trying to fix something that is not broken? The best part of the game was its simplicity which has been taken away.
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Last edited
I stopped playing the game 4 to 5 years ago because of real life commitments and also the game became boring, tedious and a grind. Even back then there was talk about class balancing. I can see that even after that long nothing has changed. Even 5 years ago it started with lets get rid of solo content and make the game more playing as a group. Then some warrior complained about hunters and wizards being too strong so they nerfed these 2 classes. There was a lot of hue and cry but devs did not listen to the majority. The addition of feats added more to the confusion and complexity of the game. It takes ages and lot of effort and gold to finally get the gear you want. Is that level of grind really worth it? Why are the devs trying to fix something that is not broken? The best part of the game was its simplicity which has been taken away.
The wizards were boring because with the damage, the protection aka invincibility it took no skill and planning to "not die".
You've been gone a long time, many changes were made since you last played. Your toon is still set up from when wizards were almost invincible. Characters have been changed to be back where they were when things were more balanced. Yes, many are upset by this but it never should have gotten so that almost everyone was so OP and able to be everything. I remember being in a zone with your wizard at one end and 2 of us (warrior and priest) at the other end... you were able to move through the zone more quickly than 2 of us together did. Your health never went down, you killed everything with one shot. While my warrior had to hit everything 2 to 4 times, big bounties took more and I had to kill all the mobs along the way, you could draw out the bounties. My warrior can't draw out any mobs or bounties so fights take longer. Wizards were always meant to be glass canons but somehow they got more hp along with dmg and defense and could blaze through zones faster than all other classes. The hunters and shadow priests followed suit, making warriors pretty much irrelevant. It got so no one had to depend on anyone else for the big fights, everyone was fighting alone. And that was not how the game started or was intended to be. All classes were set up so we could work together, so we could hunt alone but not so any were invincible.
Yes, they did listen to those who were not gifted the abilities some were. So not the balancing is being done, so it's not so boring. So some classes cannot just blaze through zones and get bored. So you do have to be strategic and not be confident you won't die.
 

Lamorack

Great Adventurer
Platform
  1. iOS
Y
The wizards were boring because with the damage, the protection aka invincibility it took no skill and planning to "not die".
You've been gone a long time, many changes were made since you last played. Your toon is still set up from when wizards were almost invincible. Characters have been changed to be back where they were when things were more balanced. Yes, many are upset by this but it never should have gotten so that almost everyone was so OP and able to be everything. I remember being in a zone with your wizard at one end and 2 of us (warrior and priest) at the other end... you were able to move through the zone more quickly than 2 of us together did. Your health never went down, you killed everything with one shot. While my warrior had to hit everything 2 to 4 times, big bounties took more and I had to kill all the mobs along the way, you could draw out the bounties. My warrior can't draw out any mobs or bounties so fights take longer. Wizards were always meant to be glass canons but somehow they got more hp along with dmg and defense and could blaze through zones faster than all other classes. The hunters and shadow priests followed suit, making warriors pretty much irrelevant. It got so no one had to depend on anyone else for the big fights, everyone was fighting alone. And that was not how the game started or was intended to be. All classes were set up so we could work together, so we could hunt alone but not so any were invincible.
Yes, they did listen to those who were not gifted the abilities some were. So not the balancing is being done, so it's not so boring. So some classes cannot just blaze through zones and get bored. So you do have to be strategic and not be confident you won't die.
To my mind they just changed who has to be strategic and when, not really affecting the boredom you seem to have suffered but simply redistributing it.

Why do I care if I zoom through a zone on one class and struggle more on another? It tends to balance out in another. All that matters is that all should be able to play and the acceptance that some high performance comes at a price of greater difficulty/survivability.

This whole X has it easier than Y thing is ridiculous. Just let people play their toons and work on their own shaping of them and, unless a class legitimately can’t do something reasonably played by a non veteran, leave things be.

You mention wizards. Ice got neutered in most communal settings while Fire continues to exude power and only somewhat more squishiness in my experience. I’ve has more crowd control but fire, indeed all but water shams have enough.

Right now, I and others find Ice to be great fun till 95 and then ready for retirement to the farm. What a waste of a fun to play class. Isn’t that what we come to play for? Fun.
I don’t play your toons and you don’t play mine. What does it matter if my shadow is a little better dps than your marksman or vice versa. What matters surely is playing the way one wants to with one’s avatar and having a fair chance of success and competing against yourself and others if your class if that rivalry is a motivation.

For the record I currently play 6 sub classes, though Water is new. I’ve played them all though Marksman only briefly. They were all playable, some and some roles just suit my current preference as to role and style more.

I know you want to be positive but sometimes not everything needs to or should be defended. In this case it’s just a reshuffle that changes what people had built, though it also seems to be narrowing options.

In all my time here in this game I’ve never seen an initiative so universally disliked in chat (which I have not joined in with) or forums. The best I can say is that some of the retrenchment has helped mitigate. Right now ice wiz is more boring than it’s ever been. It’s a pleasant surprise to even see one, even in the Vale. It’s not just Ice but that’s the class you referenced.

listening to those who talked most loudly is not necessarily good listening to the community. There’s a widely voiced belief that it’s pointless posting on forums because they don’t reflect the majority on contentious issues and due to the tone when anything counter to the current direction is voiced.

That’s not good for representative feedback or player retention. Of those that started this, very very few are still seen around. It seems to me a time to pause and reflect is called for not justification.

Not all change is bad, but not all is good, but the recent non mana mana changes haven’t made any toon I play more fun at all. it seems that is true for some number of others at least.
 

Xantia

Arch Wizard
Characters
Xantia
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
listening to those who talked most loudly is not necessarily good listening to the community. There’s a widely voiced belief that it’s pointless posting on forums because they don’t reflect the majority on contentious issues and due to the tone when anything counter to the current direction is voiced.

That’s not good for representative feedback or player retention. Of those that started this, very very few are still seen around. It seems to me a time to pause and reflect is called for not justification.

Not all change is bad, but not all is good, but the recent non mana mana changes haven’t made any toon I play more fun at all. it seems that is true for some number of others at least.
Very well said. 💯👏
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
listening to those who talked most loudly is not necessarily good listening to the community. There’s a widely voiced belief that it’s pointless posting on forums because they don’t reflect the majority on contentious issues and due to the tone when anything counter to the current direction is voiced.
My comments were to an old friend who was gone for a number of updates. A lot of what I said to him was aimed at some of the previous things that were done. And my comments were to an old friend who was gone for a number of updates.
It got to the point where all classes were taking to the forums to complain (loudly) that such and such class was OP (and has been a reoccurring theme each and every time one class got "nerfed" and/or another class got a boost. Then the complaining would turn to "my class isn't as good, fast, doing as much damage as such and such class".
It really got to a ridiculous point that we were all becoming clones of the same class, everyone came to forums to ask for this skill and that skill and in trying to make people happy they'd boost dmg, speed, give them healing, it got nutty. And the worst part is ( I just recently I saw someone claim again) warriors are OP! Of all the classes, warriors are at the bottom of the list.
Any time any adjustment is made people get upset.

This recent balance update was long overdue.

Edit to add: The Devs DID ask for input into the changes, they asked for comprehensive Why's and How's changes should be adjusted.
 

Lamorack

Great Adventurer
Platform
  1. iOS
My comments were to an old friend who was gone for a number of updates. A lot of what I said to him was aimed at some of the previous things that were done. And my comments were to an old friend who was gone for a number of updates.
It got to the point where all classes were taking to the forums to complain (loudly) that such and such class was OP (and has been a reoccurring theme each and every time one class got "nerfed" and/or another class got a boost. Then the complaining would turn to "my class isn't as good, fast, doing as much damage as such and such class".
It really got to a ridiculous point that we were all becoming clones of the same class, everyone came to forums to ask for this skill and that skill and in trying to make people happy they'd boost dmg, speed, give them healing, it got nutty. And the worst part is ( I just recently I saw someone claim again) warriors are OP! Of all the classes, warriors are at the bottom of the list.
Any time any adjustment is made people get upset.

This recent balance update was long overdue.

Edit to add: The Devs DID ask for input into the changes, they asked for comprehensive Why's and How's changes should be adjusted.
We are being forced into being clones now more than we ever were then.

Thank you for expressing your view that an update was long overdue. At least your position is clear. That’s your opinion, however not a statement of empirical fact.

In my opinion and and it seems those of many other it was not and certainly not as delivered. As a moderator not a guardian generally statements are more balanced.
If I was wondering before why so many don’t bother to post, I am not after the dismissive tone.

Asking for feedback is not the same as wanting a pat on the back. It’s a genuine request for opinion. It appears this was not that, at least in your eyes. Perhaps it’s not the loudest but closest voices that led us here.

I won’t waste your or my time further.
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
I'm sorry you took my comments to someone who played a long time ago and had been gone for a number of updates as if I was speaking to you personally. I never dismissed your comments, and I'm not sure why you took offense. I just pointed out I was addressing my comments to someone who I've known for years, who was a guildmate and a friend. And then clarified what I said to him.
 

Lamorack

Great Adventurer
Platform
  1. iOS
Last edited
I'm sorry you took my comments to someone who played a long time ago and had been gone for a number of updates as if I was speaking to you personally. I never dismissed your comments, and I'm not sure why you took offense. I just pointed out I was addressing my comments to someone who I've known for years, who was a guildmate and a friend. And then clarified what I said to him.
Public expressions of opinion are likely to be taken as intended for public consumption.

There is no obviously humorous or personal tinge to the writing or explicit reference that seems to make whatever relationship qualify the intent or meaning if the content so I fail to see any relevance here.

I simply responded to the language in your public response to a post I happen to agree with. Others can judge the tone and content for themselves.

As I said, I have come to the conclusion that I’m clearly wasting my time expressing an opinion because it’s not one you as a moderator believe the devs really want to hear let alone contemplate or determine if it is indeed as endemic within the playing community as it appears to be to me.

just for the record, the absence of particular detailed suggestions is because the whole thrust is not to go any further down this retrograde path to enforced conformity. It’s not more fun but less.

Sadly, that and the tone and content of this exchange have just ended up validating perceptions of these forums that I could have saved my breath by listening to.
 
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Littlenymph

Squirrel
Characters
Layla Littlenymph
Platform
  1. PC
  2. Steam
With the rise in popularity of short-form social media like Discord where topics come and go in the blink of an eye, it seems that some of us have forgotten how to engage in actual conversations and debates that long-form social media like forums offer.

Any member of this forum is entitled to express an opinion. They are also entitled to disagree with an opinion presented by another. The only people that "can't" express an opinion here are those that fail to do so in a civil manner that is in keeping with the ToS of the forum. Disagreeing with you is not an attack. It's a disagreement. There have been times when I have posted unpopular opinions or ideas and have received far more criticism than praise. I don't feel attacked. I don't feel bullied. I don't feel that I'm being driven from the forum. I'm being challenged. I've said an unpopular thing, as I'm probably doing now, and am ready and willing to defend that opinion.

Perhaps if people would spend more time defending and arguing the merits of their position than playing the victim card and finding hostility where none was intended, we could have some lively debates. Sadly, it seems we become less capable of that with every passing day.
Feel free to criticize me for this opinion. I can take it. Can you?
 
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