KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
Last edited
This thread will contain a list of stats, runes, spells, talents and ultimates I feel should be adjusted. This could mean that they are either underpowered and could use a buff, or overpowered and require a nerf. Or it could just be something that doesn't really work well and needs some improvements.

I'm creating this because balance discussions are still fairly common, yet there is not a single consolidated list of feedback and data. I will update the main post with information presented by others so that it is easy to navigate.

This thread is a work in progress, additional sections and data are still being compiled!

Trinkets

Brutal Force
  • Spell: Trinket
  • Claim: Overpowered
  • Description: Increases brutality by X for 20 seconds and give yourself a 100% chance to critically strike for 4 seconds.
  • Reason: With the speed that players can cast, and the ability to predict crits, players can line up their most powerful combos and guarantee themselves critical strikes. This leads to some extremely fast and powerful damage spikes.
  • Suggestion: Your next 2 spells are guaranteed to critically strike
Zephyr's Enclave
  • Spell: Trinket
  • Claim: Overpowered
  • Description: Instantly reduce all remaining cooldowns by 40%, increase Expertise by X for 20 seconds
  • Reason: Powerful spells have long cooldowns for a reason.
  • Suggestion: Instantly reduce all remaining cooldowns by 25%

Warrior

Master-At-Arms
  • Talent: 35 points
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: 35% of your Expertise is added to the higher of your Masteries
  • Reason: For 35 points, this is a fairly weak talent due to diminishing returns. Let's say we have 30,000 points in Expertise at level 95, and 10,500 of those points will boost one of your masteries.
  • Suggestion: This could be a powerful hybrid talent, especially since the ultimate is already hybrid-oriented. Instead of boosting the higher mastery, boost both masteries.
Surging Howl
  • Spell: Necklace
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: Restores 500 mana as well as 75 bonus mana for each enemy surrounding you. Your intellect is then increased by X for 60 seconds
  • Reason: The intellect boost is handy the first time you pop Howl at full mana. Without full mana though (majority of the time in Raids / Dungeons), it has no effect, and during sustained Elder Boss battles it leaves much to be desired due to the lack of +75 per additional enemy.
  • Suggestion: ... Your clarity is increased by X for 60 seconds.
Heart of the Mountain
  • Talent: 15 points
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: Your maximum mana is increased by 375 and your mana regeneration by 60%
  • Reason: This talent is gimped due to the Ultimate which doubles its effects. For those who don't invest all 15 points, they will receive minimal benefits compared to other classes. The talent should be able to stand alone without having to rely on the Ultimate to be useful.
  • Suggestion: The benefits from the Ultimate should apply to the talent, and the Ultimate be changed accordingly.
It's Alive
  • Ultimate: 40 Points
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: When you take damage that would otherwise be fatal, you prevent that damage and instead heal to 100% of your maximum health. This effect can only occur once every 10 minutes
  • Reason: As far as Ultimates go, this is the worst one in the game. 40 talent points and it restores you to your base maximum health, not your overall maximum health. This means it'll restore you to around 50k health at level 95. Let's compare this to a hunter Ultimate that costs less points: On activating your Hunting Knife you instantly restore to 100% health and mana. This effect can occur once every 3 minutes. This is just blatantly unfair. 40 points vs 35 points. Occurs every 10 minutes vs every 3 minutes. Restores to base max health vs restores 100% health and mana. Works only when you are about to die vs activate any time.
  • Suggestion: Change the entire Ultimate. Whenever Spirit of the Storm is active, 40% of the damage done to your allies is instead reflected onto you.
Spirit of the Storm
  • Spell: 10 Talents
  • Claim: Overpowered
  • Description: Become invulnerable for 15 seconds
  • Reason: This is a crutch and the reason warriors can stay alive without focusing on defense.
  • Suggestion: Become invulnerable for 10 seconds or perhaps grant an absorb shield for 100% of your Maximum Health
Unbreakable
  • Talent: 35 Points
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: 15% of your Fury Mastery is added to your Vitality, Armor and Magic Resist.
  • Reason: Fury is meant to be a high risk, high reward character. They shouldn't survive through their armor in my opinion as it will have very little effect on them due to their lack of shield. What they really need is better healing.
  • Suggestion: 15% of your Fury Mastery is added to your Vitality and Lifesteal
Unbreakable Will
  • Spell: Elder Weapons
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: Heals you for X health over 20 seconds
  • Reason: At level 95, Unbreakable Will heals me for 58k health over 20 seconds with over 2 minutes of cooldown. A single blight health potion heals me for 90+k health over 30 seconds.
  • Suggestion: Heals you for 50% of your maximum health over 20 seconds. For each nearby enemy, increase the healing by 5%.
More coming...

Priest

Unstable Power
  • Ultimate: 5 points
  • Claim: Overpowered
  • Description: Shadow Orbs now has a 40% chance to detonate your curses, dealing all of their remaining damage instantly with a 50% increased chance to critically strike... the chance of Unstable Power to occur increases with your Shadow Power
  • Reason: For 5 points this is the single most power ultimate in the game. It does have to be accessible fairly early so that new shadow priests have a chance to solo, but it grants way too many perks at the same time.
  • Suggestion: Remove the 50% increased chance to critically strike. Add on that this effect can only occur once every 15 seconds. So Shadow Priests will have to do 1 or 2 rotations before they can detonate again, which seems fair as detonation should not be as frequent as once per rotation.
Dying Breath
  • Ultimate: 35 points
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: Whenever you take damage that would otherwise be fatal, you block the damage, become invulnerable, gain 100% mana cost reduction. 20 seconds later you die
  • Reason: The perks are very interesting but there is one caveat: You die. No one will take an Ultimate that ultimately results in their death. Players will most likely choose spells that will keep them alive.
  • Suggestion: Cast 'Dying Breath' effect on one ally. If that ally is about to take fatal damage, that charge will disappear and the ally will gain full health. Only one of these charges can be active at a time.
Rebuke
  • Spell: Necklace
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: Enemy cannot take action for 30 seconds, damage will cancel this effect. If rebuked for 10s the enemy's armor and magic resist is reduced for 30s
  • Reason: Even Shadow priests prefer a holy necklace to this. Very limited practical use, as waiting 10s before each confrontation is a waste of time when fights last less than 10 seconds anyways, and using it prior to an Elder won't net much of an effect considering the debuff lasts for 30s only.
  • Suggestion: The enemy is cursed, causing all damage done by the enemy for the next 10 seconds to reflect back onto itself over 30 seconds.
More coming...

Hunter

Missile Insight
  • Talent: 20 points
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: You take 50% less damage from ranged missile attacks
  • Reason: Just fairly pointless as hunters are rarely tanking in group content and can easily stun enemies when solo, thus rendering this effect void.
  • Suggestion: Your Savagery is increased by 1% for every meter you are away from your target, for a maximum of 20 meters
Plaguelord
  • Ultimate: 35 points
  • Claim: Overpowered
  • Description: Noxious Shot now spreads to up to 5 nearby enemies
  • Reason: With this, Noxious shot is the best AoE in the game. Deals the most damage and has the shortest cooldown.
  • Suggestion: Noxious Shot now spreads to up to 2 nearby enemies
Tempest of the Roc
  • Spell: Bow
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: A conjured storm causes all nearby allies to gain X health, and all nearby enemies take X nature damage
  • Reason: This will never be a healing spell due to the cooldown and lack of actual healing. It is trying to do too much and ends up doing too little.
  • Suggestion: Some players have suggested mana as an alternative, but having one support spell just seems off if Nature is meant to be damage then it should be damage all around. I would suggest: Tempest of the Roc deals X damage to nearby enemies and refreshes all existing DoTs applied to enemies.
Distract
  • Spell: Necklace
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: Throws a flashbang that distracts the enemy for 30 seconds, during which time they cannot take actions. Damage will cancel the effect. If distracted for at least 10 seconds, the target will become Marked For Death, reducing armor and magic resist by X for 30 seconds.
  • Reason: Same reason as all of the other necklaces that work the exact same way.
  • Suggestion: Throws a flashbang that distract the enemy, causing their attacks to have a 50% chance to miss for 15 - 30 seconds.
Show Them How
  • Talent: 30 points
  • Claim: Overpowered
  • Description: Slowing Shot, Cripping Shot and Wounding shot have a 15% chance to grant all nearby allies 25% increased attack speed and cooldown rate for 30 seconds
  • Reason: This triggers far too often to the point where it feels like it's active for the majority of fights. I would rather this effect be less frequent. As it is now, it's simply too powerful and results in mindless spam.
  • Suggestion: True Shot has a 10% chance to proc 'Show them How'. This will provide allies with 1 of 3 potential boosts. Either 25% increased attack speed, 25% increased cooldown rate, or 25% increased mana regeneration.
Snaring Expertise
  • Talent: 15 points
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: Enemies that damage you move 75% slower for 5 seconds
  • Reason: Doesn't fit in well with a support role for Marksman or a DPS role for Nature and most players don't seem to go for it.
  • Suggestion: Stunning an enemy has a 50% chance to Root enemies in place for 5 seconds. Rooted enemies take additional damage
Graceful Reflexes
  • Ultimate: 20 points
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: You can never be dazed, stunned or crushed from an enemy's critical strike
  • Reason: This is such a rare occurrence. It has to happen during an enemy's critical strike?
  • Suggestion: Dodge chance is increased by 30% when enemies are within 5 meters from you.
More coming...

Wizard

Shatter
  • Ultimate: 30 points
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: If either Glacial Spike or Hoarfrost fail to critically strike, then they successfully critical strike instead. This effect can occur once every 60 seconds
  • Reason: 30 points to get a critical strike?
  • Suggestion: When an enemy is frozen solid by Deep Freeze they are vulnerable to Shatter. Casting Hoarfrost on the enemy will 'Shatter' them, dealing 200% bonus damage and dealing AoE damage to other nearby enemies.
Crystallize
  • Spell: Necklace
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: Freezes an enemy solid for 30 seconds, in that time the enemy cannot take any action. Damage will cancel the effect. If Frozen for 10s the enemy will suffer from brain freeze, reducing Armor and Magic Resist for 30 seconds
  • Reason: Who is going to wait 10 seconds prior to every conflict? And why waste it on an Elder boss if the effect only lasts for 30 seconds? Extremely weak necklace spell with little to no practical use.
  • Suggestion: Cast an Ice Rune upon the ground. Enemies who step on top will become Crystallized. Encased in ice similar to the effect from Deep Freeze. This will be another good combo for Shatter / Hoarfrost.
Cold-Blooded
  • Ultimate: 40 points
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: Ice Javelin's base damage is increased by 150%
  • Reason: This is just a disappointing Ultimate for 40 points. The 40 point Ultimates should be pivotal for the class.
  • Suggestion: First of all, Ice Javelin's damage should be increased by 100% inherently. Now let's get into the actual Ultimate: Gain charges of Cold-Blood whenever you freeze an enemy. At 30 charges you activate Cold Blooded for the next 30 seconds. Enemies who have the "frozen" effect will take 200% standard level damage over time until the effect expires.
Sorcerer's Will
  • Talent: 35 points
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: When you are dealt fatal damage, the damage is reduced by 35% ... this reduction is doubled if the damage is magic damage.
  • Reason: Wizards often don't have to worry about fatal damage like this. Ice wizards are fairly tanky and fire wizards have stuns and DPS to counter enemies. I don't believe I have ever seen a player use this.
  • Suggestion: Let's turn this into a mana support spell. Every 60 seconds you activate Sorcerer's Will. This effect lasts for 10 seconds. During these 10 seconds, the mana from the spells you cast will begin to build up. Over the following 50 seconds, that mana is dispersed among each of your nearby allies. So if you spend 2k mana over that 10 seconds, then each of your allies will gain 2k mana over the next 50 seconds.
Master of the Arcane
  • Talent: 20 points
  • Claim: Overpowered
  • Description: You gain 40% increased Savagery
  • Reason: Savagery - AKA Critical Strike Chance - is an extremely powerful stat already. A 40% bonus is just too much for the cost.
  • Suggestion: You gain 20% increased Savagery
Inner Fire
  • Spell: Weapon
  • Claim: Underpowered
  • Description: Allies gain X will for 2 minutes
  • Reason: An incredibly passive spell that could be spruced up into a very powerful support spell.
  • Suggestion: Grants all nearby allies Inner Fire for 5 seconds. All mana spent while this effect is active will instead be returned to the caster. I can see wizards using this very strategically, telling their allies when the effect is about to be cast so they can prepare to use their highest mana costing spells.
Volcanic Blast
  • Talent: 35 points
  • Claim: Overpowered
  • Description: ... Volcanic Blasts are doubled in size, deal 450% increased damage and stun the enemy on impact
  • Reason: 450% increased damage is insane first of all. Combine that with a critical Fireball which already deals upwards of 300% increased damage?
  • Suggestion: ... Volcanic Blasts are doubled in size and deal 200% increased damage and stun the enemy on impact
Combustion
  • Ultimate: 35 points
  • Claim: Overpowered
  • Description: Combustion now has a 50% chance to cause your target to combust again, with subsequent combusts being able to trigger this same effect. This can chain a maximum of 5 combusts
  • Reason: Combust is a powerful single-target spell with a short cooldown. Being able to chain up to 5 additional combusts per combust is incredibly powerful.
  • Suggestion: Combustion now has a 30% chance to cause your target to combust again .... This can chain to a maximum of 3 combusts.
Arcane Alacrity
  • Spell: Elder Weapon
  • Claim: Overpowered
  • Description: .... Reduces mana costs by 90% for 15 seconds.
  • Reason: So basically 15 seconds of free casts for a class that has one of the most powerful single-target spells in the game (Mana Fire). Any spell that results in mindless spamming I'm not a fan of.
  • Suggestion: .... Reduces mana costs by 100% for 5 seconds.
More coming...

Shaman

More coming...
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
Last edited
Surging Howl, I disagree with surging howl, tho the intellect seems bad, the mana refill itself is really good, not to mention it synergy with War cry warrior built. Also compared to any other necklace spell, it rank is pretty high up.

Hearth of the mountain also not really under powered, again if compared to any other classes, it only worst than mage and shaman version of it. Overall the max mana and mana regen talent just feel underwhelming because crafted mana potion is just a much better alternative, to solve mana issue.

Missile Insight I find this one is good, but it is too situational. The suggestion sounds fun but I prefer if that it is reversed, so we gain more damage if we're closer to the enemy. I think it will create a good dynamic in fight where hunter have to choose get close to do more damage with the risk of getting hit with AoE or stay safe far away but with less damage.

Volcanic Blast and Plague Lord I don't feel like they're overpowered, I find that those are the expected power level of spending 30 talent point. They felt overpowered because most other 30 cost talent felt so bad. In general the 30 & 35 cost are underwhelming and need some buff since I find that is where most class identity defining talent should be put at.

Crystallize
Instead of being underwhelming. I find its a mistake to consider it an ice spell, because it is a utility spell that every class have(distract, lulling breeze, rebuke). Instead an Ice specific necklace rune need to be made for Ice Wizard. I have the same argument for when Rebuke is compared with Cure.

Cold Blooded and It's Alive. They might look underwhelming but compared to all other 40 cost talent I find all of the to be in similar power level. I find the weaker ultimate is fine because the 40% boost in ability power is really big already.

Master of the Arcane. I don't find this one overpowered. 40% increase in savagery sounds like a lot, but in reality it only increase crit chance by 4% at most, and because of diminishing return, it cannot really make Wizard stronger than any other class. It just make Wizard don't have to get gear with savagery as much as other class. Overall stat increasing talent/spell need a rework, because of the diminishing return. And Instead of becoming a class defining talent/spell, it just mean we can spend less amount of slot for that stat in our gear.



The general thing that I wish to get some rework is mana potion. The current mana potion just over shadow all mana increasing spell and talent, which make them feel bad. The second one is Brutal Force Trinket, the damage increase from Brutal Force Trinket is so high that I feel the other trinket almost irrelevant on most of the condition.
 

Illuthas

Wizard
Platform
PC
  • Talent: 20 points
  • Claim: Overpowered
  • Description: You gain 40% increased Savagery
  • Reason: Savagery - AKA Critical Strike Chance - is an extremely powerful stat already. A 40% bonus is just too much for the cost.
  • Suggestion: You gain 20% increased Savagery
You are wrong there.
Some numbers on what savagery does. I did this based on lv 90. I wanted to know how savagery and brutality scaled together.

1589924152609.png

with 0/0 S/B you get 2% chance to crit and deal 50% more damage when you crit. (tooltip on this is poorly worded)
This amounts to 1% more damage average.
3500/3500 ( 1 item at lvl 90 depending on rarity and enchantment ofc) gives a total bonus of 5,47%
The increase remain linear with an increase of about 5% per item.
Not included here is the test on wheather savagery and brutality should be kept equal for best efficency (yes it should)

Assuming that you have 5 items with savagery and 7 items with brutality: Master of the Arcane will give you 2 items worth of savagery for a equivalent of 7/7 items. you pay 20 talent points for 2 stacks of savagery or 1 item. 1 item whith savagery + brutality give you about 5% more damage

As far as i can tell you generally get about 1% something for 1 talent point.
mastery +1%, hp +1%, etc. i refer to that as 1 talentpoint equivalent. TPE

the volcanic blast + combust, talent i estimated to about 1,6 tpe, but you are locked in to fireball and combust.
Master of the arcane will if we disregard the ultimate give a tpe of 5/20 or 0,25.

Master of arcane is garbage.
Most tpe estimates ive done claim that anything that compete with your gear is bad.
And sadly you dont get the benefit from uppgrading your gear since you probably also get that stat from gear and diminishing returns happens.

Now if i could pay 10 talent points for 25-50% damage reduction depending on usage... now that would be broken.
Funny how Frost wizards have both the highest and lowest tpe value talents i have seen in the game. doing the same thing non the less.
 

Attachments

KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
Surging Howl, I disagree with surging howl, tho the intellect seems bad, the mana refill itself is really good, not to mention it synergy with War cry warrior built. Also compared to any other necklace spell, it rank is pretty high up.
The intellect seems bad because it is. An intellect boost means absolutely nothing if not at max mana, which will occur for the majority of uses. Try not to compare it to the other necklace spells, because most of them will land themselves on this list as underpowered as well.

Hearth of the mountain also not really under powered, again if compared to any other classes, it only worst than mage and shaman version of it. Overall the max mana and mana regen talent just feel underwhelming because crafted mana potion is just a much better alternative, to solve mana issue.
It is worse than the wizard, shaman and priest version. It is only superior if comparing it to hunter, however hunters gain both health and mana at the cost of one so not really comparable. Thus, when comparing it to wizard, shaman and priest - the 3 similarly made talents - and finding it worse, that is exactly what makes it underpowered.

Mana potions should have a cooldown of 30s so that players cannot spam them. If that were the case, this talent would be sorely lacking. Keep in mind, I am speaking about the talent and not the ultimate.

Missile Insight I find this one is good, but it is too situational. The suggestion sounds fun but I prefer if that it is reversed, so we gain more damage if we're closer to the enemy. I think it will create a good dynamic in fight where hunter have to choose get close to do more damage with the risk of getting hit with AoE or stay safe far away but with less damage.
That seems to go against the nature of Marksman hunters, and the goal should be to clearly define class roles.

Volcanic Blast and Plague Lord I don't feel like they're overpowered, I find that those are the expected power level of spending 30 talent point. They felt overpowered because most other 30 cost talent felt so bad. In general the 30 & 35 cost are underwhelming and need some buff since I find that is where most class identity defining talent should be put at.
Either way you word it, the result is the same. Either Volcanic Blast and Plague Lord are better than all of the other 30 / 35 point talents, or the other 30 / 35 point talents are all worse than Volcanic Blast and Plague Lord. Different ways to say the same thing: These 2 talents are clearly superior.

Crystallize
Instead of being underwhelming. I find its a mistake to consider it an ice spell, because it is a utility spell that every class have(distract, lulling breeze, rebuke). Instead an Ice specific necklace rune need to be made for Ice Wizard. I have the same argument for when Rebuke is compared with Cure.
All of those spells you listed will end up on this list shortly, because they have little to no actual value.

Cold Blooded and It's Alive. They might look underwhelming but compared to all other 40 cost talent I find all of the to be in similar power level. I find the weaker ultimate is fine because the 40% boost in ability power is really big already.
I don't agree with your opinion that a weak ultimate is find because of the 40% ability boost. If an Ultimate costs 40 points, it needs to stand on its own as a powerful and unique ability. If we say X talent is fine because the Ultimate is good or vice versa then we aren't judging based on the merits of the talent or ultimate itself. It's Alive is probably the most useless Ultimate in the game, as a Lightning Warrior I may have had it activate once in the past month.

The general thing that I wish to get some rework is mana potion. The current mana potion just over shadow all mana increasing spell and talent, which make them feel bad. The second one is Brutal Force Trinket, the damage increase from Brutal Force Trinket is so high that I feel the other trinket almost irrelevant on most of the condition.
Brutal Force and Zephyr's will be on this list in due time as well

You are wrong there.
Some numbers on what savagery does. I did this based on lv 90. I wanted to know how savagery and brutality scaled together.

View attachment 7378

with 0/0 S/B you get 2% chance to crit and deal 50% more damage when you crit. (tooltip on this is poorly worded)
This amounts to 1% more damage average.
3500/3500 ( 1 item at lvl 90 depending on rarity and enchantment ofc) gives a total bonus of 5,47%
The increase remain linear with an increase of about 5% per item.
Not included here is the test on wheather savagery and brutality should be kept equal for best efficency (yes it should)

Assuming that you have 5 items with savagery and 7 items with brutality: Master of the Arcane will give you 2 items worth of savagery for a equivalent of 7/7 items. you pay 20 talent points for 2 stacks of savagery or 1 item. 1 item whith savagery + brutality give you about 5% more damage

As far as i can tell you generally get about 1% something for 1 talent point.
mastery +1%, hp +1%, etc. i refer to that as 1 talentpoint equivalent. TPE

the volcanic blast + combust, talent i estimated to about 1,6 tpe, but you are locked in to fireball and combust.
Master of the arcane will if we disregard the ultimate give a tpe of 5/20 or 0,25.

Master of arcane is garbage.
Most tpe estimates ive done claim that anything that compete with your gear is bad.
And sadly you dont get the benefit from uppgrading your gear since you probably also get that stat from gear and diminishing returns happens.

Now if i could pay 10 talent points for 25-50% damage reduction depending on usage... now that would be broken.
Funny how Frost wizards have both the highest and lowest tpe value talents i have seen in the game. doing the same thing non the less.
I am having a difficult time understanding what you are trying to convey. Could you clarify?
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
Try not to compare it to the other necklace spells, because most of them will land themselves on this list as underpowered as well.
I believe there should be a standard to compare it too, if not then how can we know if it is overpowered or underpowered? Since each necklace have their own dedicated rune, I find comparing it to other necklace the most natural thing to do. I feel the mana refill alone is already good enough the intellect is just like a bonus. I don't mind if changed into clarity but the X also have to be scaled down by a lot, 9k clarity at lvl 95 is pretty big.
Either way you word it, the result is the same. Either Volcanic Blast and Plague Lord are better than all of the other 30 / 35 point talents, or the other 30 / 35 point talents are all worse than Volcanic Blast and Plague Lord. Different ways to say the same thing: These 2 talents are clearly superior.
I think its a bit different because right now most player tend to avoid the 30/35 talent and choose to get more ultimate from the low cost one, because of that I feel the other 30/35 talent is the one that is underpowered.

All of those spells you listed will end up on this list shortly, because they have little to no actual value.
I believe they do, just not on a group scenario, like when fighting a grouped mob isolating the bounties with those spell make fighting the group much easier.

That seems to go against the nature of Marksman hunters, and the goal should be to clearly define class roles.
i just find the mechanic serve no purpose, because naturally you want to stay as far as possible anyway. I just copied Baldok mechanic because I find it interesting and just seem logical.

It's Alive is probably the most useless Ultimate in the game, as a Lightning Warrior I may have had it activate once in the past month.
I agree that It's Alive is useless right now but it's not because it's alive is bad, it just that Lightning warrior defensive capabilities is wasted right now, so many defensive capabilities, yet no content actually require them. I think it might come in handy later after the raid is released, when we tried the hardest difficulty possible. Also after patch its alive gonna increase threat by 40%, so it have general use even tho not triggered and give 2s invulnerability that make it better when triggered.

I don't agree with your opinion that a weak ultimate is find because of the 40% ability boost. If an Ultimate costs 40 points, it needs to stand on its own as a powerful and unique ability.
Not just for the 40 cost one, in general I prefer if the game have stronger talent, while the Ultimate should have milder strength. I don't really like that the game rely a bit too much on Ultimate like right now. It make the character power growth felt really slow and suddenly get a big each time we unlock the ultimate. It also become one of the reason why level scaling hard to do other than the socket issue.

It is worse than the wizard, shaman and priest version.
I think it is a bit better than the priest version. The priest version do have 1225 more max mana, but the warrior version have 1.2 more mana regen/s. Since most group content last more than 1000s and considering warrior is more mana efficient, I find the extra mana regen to be better. I agree with your reasoning at the OP tho, that it rely too much on the ultimate to make it good.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
I actually agree that the various "sleep" talents are not that great (though in Pyrron for example it is useful to put the bounty to sleep, kill the mobs around about and then have a debuff acting on the bounty). But surely if all the classes have a similar weak feat that is surely pretty much the definition of balance? (Rather like the old joke "I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone.")
 

SprigOfHalcyon

Master Farmer
Royal Guardian
Platform
Android, PC
Assuming that you have 5 items with savagery and 7 items with brutality: Master of the Arcane will give you 2 items worth of savagery for a equivalent of 7/7 items. you pay 20 talent points for 2 stacks of savagery or 1 item. 1 item whith savagery + brutality give you about 5% more damage
I completely agree with you, Illuthas. Due to the diminishing returns stuff, the +40% savagery works out to be less than 1% damage increase per talent point.

As this affects all skills across the board, it isn't as bad as some other stat-boosting abilities. (like master at arms) I wouldn't say it's underpowered (as comparatively to other classes' stat increasing abilities, it is better). But, I wouldn't say it's overpowered either as it's worse than many other talents that add directly to skills.

Balance is tricky. Nice to put a list together, Kave, but it's gonna be enormous.

The spells I've always found incredibly underpowered are:

Bless: too long cast time, if trying to save someone, they end up dead before cast finishes. As the buff boosts stats, (and with the many discussion on how stat increasers aren't great due to diminishing returns)
and
Mass Shield: The numbers are just too small and cooldown is so long. Will boost is tiny.
 

KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
I actually agree that the various "sleep" talents are not that great (though in Pyrron for example it is useful to put the bounty to sleep, kill the mobs around about and then have a debuff acting on the bounty). But surely if all the classes have a similar weak feat that is surely pretty much the definition of balance? (Rather like the old joke "I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone.")
I'm moreso comparing that "type" of necklace spell to the alternatives. For example, I feel many would agree that spells such as Mindspark or Cure are much better. It's why we see many shadow priests adopt cure and ice wizards use mindspark. The sleep spells have very limited functionality beyond one specific chunk of content.
 
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Illuthas

Wizard
Platform
PC
I am having a difficult time understanding what you are trying to convey. Could you clarify?
One night sleep later. :)
TP (talent points)
TPE (Talen Point Eqivalen) is something i use as a universal unit for how strong something is mathematically speaking.
It is based primarily on these wiz talents:
Kalisar’s Vitality - Your Vitality and base Maximum Health are increased by 1%.
Fire Affinity - Increases your Fire Power by 1%.

You can get +1% hp or damage for 1 talent point. As such if you want to spend talent points on something else it should give you more than 1%
1 TPE = 1% attack or defence.

For exampel:
30TP in Volcanic blast unlocking combust will give:
10% chance that fireball will do 450% bonus damage or 550% total
0,1*5,5+0,9*1,0=1,45 means that you do on average 45% more damage with fireball
Combust gives
0,5*1+0,25*2+0,125*3+0,0625*4+0,03125=1,78 as in 78% more damage to combustion

If we assume that you use fireballs and combustion as often as possible. (they are my autoattacks)
Then you cast F, C, (other spell) F, C, (other spell)
if each spell deals base 100 damage then 145+178+100=423 or 40% more damage. over all, on average
40%/30TP is 1,3 TPE
I apparently missremebered when i wrote my first reply! sorry about that!
This is of not perfectly accurate but i would say that 30TP in volcanic blast is a good choice if you want to use fireball and combustion. Better than 30 points in Fire Affinity at least.

Lets use TPE on gear. There is some variable based on rarity of gear so feel free to do your own evaluation. My numbers are:
1 stack armor = 10% phys reduction (PR)
5 stack armor = 30% phys reduction (PR)
1 stack magic resist = 10% magic reduction (MR)
5 stack magic resist = 30% magic reduction (MR)

The last item gives about 5% so i think its questionable to get more
The avearge is 6% per stack.
Since MR and PR are useless without the other i think of them as an item with magic resist and armor.
10% universal damage reduction is roughly equal to 10%HP
so 1 item is 10TPE and 5 items are on average 6TPE .

For savagery and brutality i refer to the table in my previous post.
1 item is 5% bonus damage on average. 5TPE
this is true for all aditional items until you cap critrate.

The way to calculate the average bonus damage from crits is chance to deal bonus damage multiplied with said bonus damage.
By default 2 attacks out of 100 will deal 50% more damage. whith base damage 100 you get
98 attacks that deals 100 damage and 2 attacks that deal 150. total damage delt is 10100, divided by 100 attacks and we can see that each attack deals on average 101 damage or 1% more.


Master of the arcane. MoA
To get the most out of it we want as much savagery as possible and a coresponding amount of brutality.
Lets say 5 items with savagery.
40% out of 5 is 2 so we will get the equivalent of 2 items worth of savagery from MoA. (try it with actual stats if you dont believe me)
We then get 7 items with brutality to keep the balance.
2 Stacks of savagery is the same amount of stats as you would get on an item with sav and brut so to make the next step simpler we exchange them.

We paid 20 talent points and got stats worth 1 item with savagery and brutality.
20TP for 1 item. as previosly shown you can get 5TP damage or 6TPE defence from 1 item. but we paid 20 TP.

If you dont think the ultimate on MoA is worth 15TP then dont get this talent. just put 5 TP in your choice of elemental affinity.

This is the math. As objectively as i can present it. How you choose to apply it is up to you. There are several examples where things have a high TPE and i think its bad because i cant use it effecively. (Like Haste) and some things might be good simply because it covers your weakness.

My opinion on MoE and the Godawfull Thermal Shell (yes that is the true name of the talent) are a scam and that the devs should feel ashamed for A putting them in the game. And B making them so convoluted to understand that i had to write this much just to explain why.
 

Celebron.

Hunter
Platform
iOS, PC
Noxious Shot is necessary to make it through pyrron as a nature hunter. Nature Hunter does not have any other good aoe, a huge reason why many hunters, regardless of subclass, use the marksman elder spell. I just recently ran pyrron, and I would not say that it is overpowered at all. You have to fire it at least three times every fight to kill the minions, often more when they are armored ones. This takes time and quite a lot of mana. With all due respect, I think making it spread to only two people would completely ruin it. Nature really needs this aoe, I have tried running a pure nature hunter through pyrron without and it was unbearable.
 

Celebron.

Hunter
Platform
iOS, PC
  • Suggestion: Some players have suggested mana as an alternative, but having one support spell just seems off if Nature is meant to be damage then it should be damage all around. I would suggest: Tempest of the Roc deals X damage to nearby enemies and refreshes all existing DoTs applied to enemies.



More coming...
Nature Hunter is not supposed to be all damage. It says when you create your character that it is supposed to be a secondary healer/support. I 100% agree with you that it needs to be upgraded, but I would like to see an actual aoe support spell, not just something that does more damage. Definetly weaker than the priests and shamans, but something that could actually help. As I have said on another post about this exact ability, it would be perfect if they just cut the cooldown time in half and maybe boosted the heal. I often find that healing is more important than damage, especially in group settings.
 

SprigOfHalcyon

Master Farmer
Royal Guardian
Platform
Android, PC
Noxious Shot is necessary to make it through pyrron as a nature hunter.
Before actually playing nature hunter in pyrron, I thought this, but I have changed my mind after some experimentation. I found that it's better to max out nature affinity before doing plaguelord (so during pyrron, didn't have enough to max plaguelord). Being able to kill single monsters faster with woodland arrow (and more powerful poison shots) cuts down on the damage coming in faster than noxious shot, which isn't powerful enough (and is a little mana expensive to spam) to kill monsters quickly. When I was going with noxious shot, it took so many hits (what, like 4-5 casts of noxious shot to kill a normal monster?), I'd end up shooting almost every monster with poison shot anyways! (a full duration poison shot usually killed normal monsters) So, with woodland arrow, when it procs, it c kills a normal mob, and the +40% damage to all the nature spells is nice, so I've revised my advice to go for nature affinity first.

So, in pyrron, I found it to be best to be like this:
https://villagersandheroes.com/talentbuilder/#?v=2,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,5,10,20,0,40

(and then add to volatile poisons as you gain more talent points, but will be pretty much done by the time you get it maxed on most rebirths)
 
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KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
I changed the title to reflect more the direction this thread is going.

I added more stuff to the hunter category. More coming
 

Brother Zou

Citizen
KAVE,帖子:44219,成员:20 said:
这个帖子将包含一个我认为应该调整的统计、符文、法术、天赋和终极目标的列表。这可能意味着他们要么力量不足,需要一个缓冲,要么力量过大,需要一个削弱。或者它可能只是一些不太好的东西,需要一些改进。

我之所以这样做,是因为平衡讨论仍然相当普遍,但是没有一个反馈和数据的统一列表。我会用其他人提供的信息更新主帖子,以便于导航。

这个线程是一个正在进行的工作,额外的部分和数据仍在编译中!
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小玩意儿

暴力
  • 拼写:饰品
  • 索赔:压倒一切
  • 描述:增加残暴20秒,并给自己100%的几率暴击4秒。
  • 原因:凭借玩家可以施展的速度和预测致命一击的能力,玩家可以排列他们最强大的组合并保证自己获得致命一击。这导致了一些极快而强大的伤害峰值。
  • 建议:你接下来的2个法术保证会致命一击
泽法飞地
  • 拼写:饰品
  • 索赔:压倒一切
  • 描述:立即减少所有剩余冷却时间40%,增加专长20秒
  • 原因:强大的法术有很长的冷却时间是有原因的。
  • 建议:立即减少所有剩余冷却时间25%
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勇士

纠察长
  • 才能:35分
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:你35%的专业知识被加到你的硕士学位中
  • 原因:对于35分来说,这是一个相当弱的天赋,因为回报递减。假设我们在95级有30,000点专业技能,其中10,500点将提升你的一个大师。
  • 建议:这可能是一个强大的混合人才,特别是因为终极已经是混合导向的。不是提升更高的精通,而是提升两个精通。
汹涌的嚎叫
  • 拼写:项链
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:为你周围的每个敌人恢复500点法力和75点额外法力。然后你的智力增加X,持续60秒
  • 原因:当你第一次以满法力值爆发嚎叫时,智力提升很方便。虽然没有完全的法力(在突袭/地下城中的大部分时间),但它没有效果,并且在持续的老Boss战斗中,由于每增加一个敌人没有+75,它留下了很多不尽人意的地方。
  • 建议:...你的清晰度增加了60秒。
山心
  • 才能:15分
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:你的最大法力增加375,法力回复增加60%
  • 原因:这个天赋由于终极效果加倍而被削弱。对于那些没有投入全部15分的人来说,与其他班级相比,他们将获得最少的好处。天赋应该能够独立存在,而不必依赖终极才能发挥作用。
  • 建议:终极版的好处应该适用于天赋,终极版也应该相应地改变。
它还活着
  • 终极* 40分
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:当你受到致命的伤害时,你可以防止伤害,并恢复到你最大生命值的100%。这种效果只能每10分钟出现一次
  • 原因:就终极战士而言,这是游戏中最糟糕的一个。40天赋点,它将你恢复到你的基础最大健康,而不是你的整体最大健康。这意味着它会让你恢复到95级的50k生命值。让我们把它和一个需要花费较少的点数:激活猎刀后,你会立即恢复100%的生命和法力。这种效果可能每3分钟出现一次。这完全不公平。40分对35分。每10分钟一次,而不是每3分钟一次。恢复基础最大生命值vs恢复100%生命值和法力值。只在你快要死的时候有效,而不是在任何时候激活。
  • 建议:改变整个终极版。每当风暴之魂激活时,对你的盟友造成的40%伤害会反射到你身上。
风暴之魂
  • 拼写:10人才
  • 索赔:压倒一切
  • 描述:15秒内变得无懈可击
  • 原因:这是一根拐杖,也是战士们不用专注于防御就能生存的原因。
  • 建议:10秒内变得刀枪不入,或者给予你100%最大生命值的吸收盾
牢不可破的
  • 人才:35分
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:你的愤怒掌握的15%被添加到你的生命力、盔甲和魔法抵抗中。
  • 原因:愤怒是一个高风险、高回报的角色。在我看来,他们不应该通过盔甲来生存,因为由于他们缺少盾牌,盔甲对他们的影响很小。他们真正需要的是更好的治疗。
  • 建议:你的愤怒掌握的15%被添加到你的生命力和生活技能中
牢不可破的意志
  • 拼写:长者武器
  • 要求*动力不足
  • 描述:在20秒内治愈你的X生命值
  • 原因:在95级时,“牢不可破的意志”在20秒内治愈我58k生命,冷却时间超过2分钟。一剂枯萎药剂可以在30秒内治愈我90+k的生命。
  • 建议:在20秒内治愈你最大生命值的50%。对每一个附近的敌人,增加5%的治疗效果。
更多来了...
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牧师

不稳定的力量
  • 终极:5分
  • 索赔:压倒一切
  • 描述:暗影球现在有40%的几率引爆你的诅咒,立即造成所有剩余伤害,暴击几率增加50%...不稳定力量出现的几率随着你的暗影力量而增加
  • 原因:对于5分来说,这是游戏中最强大的极限。它必须很早就可以使用,这样新的影子牧师才有机会独唱,但是它同时提供了太多的额外津贴。
  • 建议:移除50%的暴击几率。此外,这种效果只能每15秒出现一次。所以暗影牧师在再次引爆之前必须进行1到2次旋转,这看起来很公平,因为每次旋转引爆的频率不应该像一次那样频繁。
垂死的呼吸
  • 终极:35分
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:每当你受到致命的伤害时,你就会阻挡伤害,变得刀枪不入,获得100%的法力消耗减少。20秒后你就死了
  • 原因:津贴很有趣,但有一个警告:你会死。没有人会选择最终导致他们死亡的终极。玩家最有可能选择能让他们存活的咒语。
  • 建议:对一个盟友施放“垂死呼吸”效果。如果该盟友将受到致命伤害,该电荷将消失,该盟友将获得完全健康。一次只能激活其中一个电荷。
指责
  • 拼写:项链
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:敌人在30秒内不能行动,伤害将会取消这个效果。如果被斥责10秒,敌人的护甲和魔法抵抗减少30秒
  • 原因:甚至影子牧师也更喜欢神圣的项链。非常有限的实际使用,因为每次对抗前等待10秒是浪费时间,无论如何战斗持续不到10秒,并且在长老面前使用它不会有太大的效果,考虑到调试只持续30秒。
  • 建议:敌人被诅咒,导致敌人在接下来的10秒内造成的所有伤害在30秒内反射回来。
更多来了...
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猎人

导弹洞察
  • 人才:20分
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:远程导弹攻击造成的伤害减少50%
  • 原因:只是相当没有意义,因为猎人很少在群体内容中坦克,并且可以在单人游戏中轻松击晕敌人,从而使这种效果无效。
  • 建议:距离目标每一米,你的野性增加1%,最多20米
Plaguelord
  • 终极:35分
  • 索赔:压倒一切
  • 描述:有害射击现在会扩散到最多5个附近的敌人
  • 原因:有了这个,有害射击是游戏中最好的。造成的伤害最大,冷却时间最短。
  • 建议:有害射击现在可以扩散到2个附近的敌人
大鹏的暴风雨
  • 拼写:
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:召唤风暴使附近所有盟友获得X点生命值,附近所有敌人受到X点自然伤害
  • 原因:由于冷却和缺乏实际治疗,这永远不会是一个治疗法术。它试图做得太多,结果却做得太少。
  • 建议:一些玩家建议使用法力作为替代,但是只有一个支援法术似乎是不可能的。如果自然是要被伤害的,那么它应该是被伤害的。我建议:巨兽风暴对附近的敌人造成X伤害,并刷新所有应用于敌人的现有DoTs。
转移
  • 拼写:项链
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:投掷闪光弹,使敌人分心30秒,在此期间他们不能采取行动。伤害会抵消效果。如果分心至少10秒,目标将被标记为死亡,减少护甲和魔法抗性30秒。
  • 原因:和其他项链一样的原因完全一样。
  • 建议:投掷闪光弹来分散敌人的注意力,使他们的攻击有50%的几率在15 - 30秒内失败。
告诉他们怎么做
  • 人才:30分
  • 索赔:压倒一切
  • 描述:减速射击、跛行射击和伤人射击有15%的几率在10秒内增加所有附近盟友25%的攻击速度
  • 原因:这太频繁地触发了,以至于感觉它在大多数战斗中都是活跃的。我希望这种影响不要太频繁。就像现在一样,它太强大了,会导致盲目的垃圾邮件。
  • S丑化:减速射击有5%的几率给予附近所有盟友25%的提升攻击速度,持续5秒
获取专业知识
  • 人才:15分
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:伤害你的敌人移动速度慢75%,持续5秒
  • 原因:不适合扮演神枪手的配角或大自然的DPS角色,大多数玩家似乎都不喜欢。
  • 建议:击昏一个敌人有50%的几率在5秒内根除敌人。扎根的敌人会受到额外的伤害
优雅的反射
  • 终极:20分
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:你永远不会因敌人的致命一击而眩晕、震惊或崩溃
  • 原因:这是如此罕见的事件。它必须在敌人的致命一击中发生?
  • 建议:当敌人离你5米以内时,闪避几率增加30%。
更多来了...
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男巫

碎片
  • 终极:30分
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:如果冰川尖刺或霜箭未能致命一击,那么它们反而成功致命一击。这种效果可以每60秒出现一次
  • 原因:30分就能获得致命一击?
  • 建议:当一个敌人被深冻冻结时,他们很容易被粉碎。向敌人施放白霜会“粉碎”他们,造成200%的额外伤害,并对附近的其他敌人造成额外伤害。
明确
  • 拼写:项链
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:冻结敌人30秒,在此期间敌人不能采取任何行动。伤害会抵消效果。如果冻结10秒,敌人将遭受大脑冻结,减少护甲和魔法抵抗30秒
  • 原因:谁会在每次冲突前等10秒钟?如果效果只持续30秒,为什么要浪费在老上司身上呢?极弱的项链咒语,几乎没有实际用途。
  • 建议:在地面上施放一个冰符。踩在上面的敌人会变成结晶。包裹在冰中,类似于深度冷冻的效果。这将是另一个很好的组合。
冷血的
  • 终极:40分
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:冰标枪的基础伤害增加150%
  • 原因:这只是一个令人失望的40分终极。40分的终极赛应该是全班的关键。
  • 建议:首先,冰标枪的伤害应该增加100%。现在让我们进入真正的终极:每当你冻结一个敌人时获得冷血的冲锋。在30次充电时,你在接下来的30秒内激活冷血。拥有“冰冻”效果的敌人将会受到200%的标准伤害,直到效果过期。
魔法师的意志
  • 人才:35分
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:当你受到致命伤害时,伤害减少35%...如果伤害是魔法伤害,这个减少会加倍。
  • 原因:巫师们通常不必担心这样的致命伤害。冰巫师相当坦克,火巫师有眩晕和DPS来对抗敌人。我不相信我曾经见过一个玩家使用这个。
  • 建议:让我们把它变成法力支持法术。每60秒你激活一次魔法师的意志。这种效果持续10秒钟。在这10秒内,你所施法术的法力将开始累积。在接下来的50秒内,法力会分散到你附近的每个盟友身上。因此,如果你在那10秒内消耗2k法力,那么你的每个盟友将在接下来的50秒内获得2k法力。
奥术大师
  • 人才:20分
  • 索赔:压倒一切
  • 描述:你的野性增加40%
  • 原因:野性——又名暴击几率——已经是一个非常强大的属性了。40%的奖金对成本来说太多了。
  • 建议:你的野性增加20%
内心之火
  • 拼写:武器
  • 索赔:动力不足的
  • 描述:盟友获得X意志2分钟
  • 原因:一个不可思议的被动法术,可以被修饰成一个非常强大的支援法术。
  • 建议:给予附近所有盟友5秒内火。该效果生效时消耗的所有法力将被返还给施法者。我可以看到巫师们非常有策略地使用这个技能,告诉他们的盟友什么时候效果会被施放,这样他们就可以准备使用他们最高的魔法消耗法术了。
火山爆发
  • 人才:35分
  • 索赔:压倒一切
  • 描述:...火山爆发的规模增加了一倍,造成450%的伤害,并在撞击时击晕敌人
  • 原因:首先,增加450%的伤害是疯狂的。结合一个已经造成300%以上伤害的致命火球?
  • 建议:...火山爆发的规模增加了一倍,造成200%的伤害,并在撞击时击晕敌人
燃烧
  • 终极:35分
  • 索赔:压倒一切
  • 描述:燃烧现在有50%的机会让你的目标再次燃烧,随后的燃烧也能触发同样的效果。这可以连锁最多5次燃烧
  • 原因:燃烧是一个强大的单目标法术,冷却时间很短。每次燃烧能够额外燃烧5次是非常强大的。
  • 建议:燃烧现在有了30%让你的目标再次燃烧的机会....这最多可以链接到3燃烧。
神秘敏捷
  • 拼写:老年武器
  • 索赔:压倒一切
  • 描述:....在15秒内减少90%的法力消耗。
  • 原因:所以对于一个拥有游戏中最强大的单目标法术之一(法力之火)的职业来说,基本上有15秒的免费施法时间。任何导致盲目垃圾邮件的咒语我都不喜欢。
  • 建议:....在5秒内减少100%的法力消耗。
更多来了...
[分离器][/分离器]
僧人

更多来了...
[/报价]You mean the mysterious agility changed from 15 seconds to 5 seconds 100 %Does mana cost? Fire Witch's Monomer Output is General, but aoe Damage is Not Ideal。The wizard of fire is pure outputs. His powers are completely inadequate If you plant the mana point 15, it means a 100% reduction in its overall outputs25-30%Integral outputs!
 

SprigOfHalcyon

Master Farmer
Royal Guardian
Platform
Android, PC
I've not played a wizard, but it seems to me coldblooded is the most powerful ultimate in the whole game (maybe seasoned botanist is better, but the points leading up to seasoned botanist aren't as strong).

Ice javelin is already a good dps spell, this multiplies it by 2.5 base it says. So, "simple dps" for ice javelin is 0.37 without the ultimate (for comparison, fireball is 0.41, true shot is 0.40, poison shot (without seasoned botanist) is 0.41 (with seasoned botanist 0.96), holy bolt is 0.38, shadow orbs 0.41, , so you can see, these "bread and butter" primary damage skills are all pretty darn close together and almost by definition balanced just from the base values)

Add in the ultimate and ice javelin goes to a 0.92. It is just one spell, but it's very reliable DPS, no special procs needed, no buildup, 6s cooldown, not a DoT.

So, I guess I disagree with that one.

I agree with shatter, though, that doesn't sound that strong, very, dare I say it, Spikey. Big hit, then sleep for 60 seconds. I don't know if there's any visual indication, would be a shame to waste it on hoarfrost, when glacial spike is nearly twice the damage.

As for show them how:
It's wierd, for solo, I find it barely useful at all, and in groups, it's quite strong. The proc rate is not that great, and "requires" 3 specific skills. Your suggested change would be a huge nerf and make it waaaaay underpowered. For just an attack speed boost, I'd say make it proc 100% off slowing shot.
As for whether I think show them how is over/under powered, it is perhaps stronger than average (overpowered in some definition), but isn't stronger than a whole lot of other strong skills. I'd say it's weaker than maxed volatile poisons, which provides a really strong AoE.
 
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KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
I've not played a wizard, but it seems to me coldblooded is the most powerful ultimate in the whole game (maybe seasoned botanist is better, but the points leading up to seasoned botanist aren't as strong).

Ice javelin is already a good dps spell, this multiplies it by 2.5 base it says. So, "simple dps" for ice javelin is 0.37 without the ultimate (for comparison, fireball is 0.41, true shot is 0.40, poison shot (without seasoned botanist) is 0.41 (with seasoned botanist 0.96), holy bolt is 0.38, shadow orbs 0.41, , so you can see, these "bread and butter" primary damage skills are all pretty darn close together and almost by definition balanced just from the base values)

Add in the ultimate and ice javelin goes to a 0.92. It is just one spell, but it's very reliable DPS, no special procs needed, no buildup, 6s cooldown, not a DoT.

So, I guess I disagree with that one.
Likely you didn't read the entirety of that section. I did not say that the 150% damage boost was underpowered, but rather that the design of the Ultimate itself felt underpowered and rather stale. Ultimates shouldn't just go around boosting spell damage by 100% or 150%. It's lackluster, lazy and frankly doesn't do the term 'Ultimate' justice.

I agree with shatter, though, that doesn't sound that strong, very, dare I say it, Spikey. Big hit, then sleep for 60 seconds. I don't know if there's any visual indication, would be a shame to waste it on hoarfrost, when glacial spike is nearly twice the damage.
Using Glacial Spike would turn a powerful spell even more powerful. That's not what we need in the game right now. What we need are improvements and uses for underpowered and underutilized spells such as hoarfrost. Hoarfrost is in need of attention as the damage is low and it provides no additional perks such as a slowing effect. Using Hoarfrost for the Shatter Ultimate would give the ability value. Using Glacial Spike would promote using a limited set of the most powerful spells, which is the opposite direction we need to head.

As for show them how:
It's wierd, for solo, I find it barely useful at all, and in groups, it's quite strong. The proc rate is not that great, and "requires" 3 specific skills. Your suggested change would be a huge nerf and make it waaaaay underpowered. For just an attack speed boost, I'd say make it proc 100% off slowing shot.
As for whether I think show them how is over/under powered, it is perhaps stronger than average (overpowered in some definition), but isn't stronger than a whole lot of other strong skills. I'd say it's weaker than maxed volatile poisons, which provides a really strong AoE.
The Proc rate is in fact great and does not require 3 specific spells, it only requires 1. Having all 3 would proc it more frequently. Perhaps my suggested change in this case isn't the most favorable so I'll look into adjusting it
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
@KAVE I think it might better to make separate thread for separate class, I feel like the topic is far to wide for a single thread and that make keeping up with things you add/change really hard. Also may be you can give a mark on things that you newly add, may be a date above them or something like that.
 
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Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
Brutal Force
your suggestion for this reduce the overall power level of the spell, but I think it cause another issue that it will increase the gap between some classes, because it will still be really good for class that rely on 1-2 big spell, while class that have many average spell will be left behind. At the same time I also don't have any good suggestion for it, feel like it should just get removed. The best I can think of is to make it increase critical damage instead of guaranteed critical chance, making it a bit unreliable.

Unbreakable
I don't like the suggestion because as long as it is only increase stats for x% it will still be really weak no matter what stat it is. it should be around 3% stats/talent point to make any talent that increase stats worth it.

Show Them How
Instead of reducing the chances, giving it a cooldown will be much better. Lowering the proc chances can make it a bit too unreliable. Reducing the duration a bit and give it a cooldown around double the buff duration should be good enough.
 

SprigOfHalcyon

Master Farmer
Royal Guardian
Platform
Android, PC
Likely you didn't read the entirety of that section. I did not say that the 150% damage boost was underpowered, but rather that the design of the Ultimate itself felt underpowered and rather stale. Ultimates shouldn't just go around boosting spell damage by 100% or 150%. It's lackluster, lazy and frankly doesn't do the term 'Ultimate' justice.
I hate to nitpick, but you did write this:
Cold-Blooded
  • Ultimate: 40 points
  • Claim: Underpowered
Not Claim: Flavorless

:)

Mathwise, it at least appears to me to be the strongest of all the ultimates for the 40-pointer in the entire game. (Which is fine, ice wizard doesn't seem OP overall)
 

KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
I hate to nitpick, but you did write this:
Cold-Blooded
  • Ultimate: 40 points
  • Claim: Underpowered
Not Claim: Flavorless

:)

Mathwise, it at least appears to me to be the strongest of all the ultimates for the 40-pointer in the entire game. (Which is fine, ice wizard doesn't seem OP overall)
Yes.. as I said you did not read the entire section:
Reason: This is just a disappointing Ultimate for 40 points. The 40 point Ultimates should be pivotal for the class.

Ultimates should be dynamic, not just straight up power boosters.
 
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