Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Slowburn, Scab, Drakzy
Platform
  1. PC
lol they are not going to give the dps back to the priest
 

Antavious

Warrior
Characters
Antavious, suoivatna
Platform
  1. iOS
So I spent about 5h meditating on how to fix surging strikes and came up with a solution that’s pretty good. I started by asking:

how strong would it have to be to compensate for the loss of the 15% damage increase to all lightning feats?
so because the shocks proc 40% of the time it takes 2.5 feats on average to proc it once and 15 feats to proc it 5 times to trigger a blast.

so 15x15%=225% of an average feat, at a rough estimate the average feat causes about 200% weapon damage so 225% of 200%= 450% but the effect currently doesn’t hit the main target making it practically useless for a bit chunk of the game so lets add a compensation modifier (only good for 25% of the game at best so gonna say x4 is fair) making the amount of damage needed to be about 1800% of weapon damage.

now I don’t know about you but this seams silly to me so:
What changes can we make to bring this number down?
first we should make it hit the main target then we can immediately remove that modifier taking it to 450% weapon power. Then I cam up with the idea of part using the original 15% damage increase (every 5% is one 3rd of the 450%) so we can make the talent still give 10% damage to lightning feats and take the blast to the 150% weapon damage or 5% and take the blast to 300% weapon damage either are good options at this point.

so. we fix by affecting the main target and adding either 10% lightning damage or 5% lightning damage and an extra 150% weapon damage on the blast (my vote is for the latter as I like the blasts but just want them to be practical)
 

V

Mad Otter Games
Developer
Okay, this is likely fall under something to fix with the next patch in general.

But first, how many lightning warrior actually use Unbreakable Will along with the Ultimate:pit Figher Prior to the mana build? I know I do, and was the build I left it as is for years.
The new descriptions of Ultimate: Pit Fighter is different now. I dont have a screenshot of Old ultimate Pit Fighter but here is the current one: View attachment 19081
I know the old one impower your auto-atks, fury feats & lightning feats to be 10% more effective. This new current ultimate is about damage only. While the old one probably affected threat effectiveness or power. I could be wrong, is why I ask if any lightning warrior did use it for their build prior to mana build changes.
Now the perks of Pit Fighter is also 10% less physical dmg taken, which remain the same.
Without any food buffs or glphy buffs, this is my lightning warrior physical defense along with that enchantment from crown shop: View attachment 19083
Now this is what it is without any food buff or glyph buff but with Ultimate: Pit fighter with surging howl on CD: View attachment 19084
I have not been around much for past two halloween events. If you haven't catch on, if I use zombie's eye for +35% protection, I would be at 95% physical damage reduction. Now, if I was to had Legendary or even Celestial Flute from Rookery Raid, I'm very likely to had 100% physical dmg reduction in The Moors. The thing is, I didn't even bother to test it & no1 likely to even cares about this.
Now, lets go over to the new & current unbreakable will. It now act as a 15sec liberty dram effect while speed up the regen base of your health:View attachment 19082
The 2m and 20c can be reduced by zephyr's enclaves once you already pop off surging howl and other buff to allow zephyr's to reduce all your long CD, and hope block chance to help to get up-time when needed

Edit: Removed explanation of bug

There was no change to the Pit Fighter Ultimate. The issue with Unbreakable Will is known. When finding issues such as this, please send a bug report rather than posting them publicly on the forums as it makes them easier to exploit.
 
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Villy

Villager
Platform
  1. Android
Last edited
There was no change to the Pit Fighter Ultimate. The issue with Unbreakable Will is known. When finding issues such as this, please send a bug report rather than posting them publicly on the forums as it makes them easier to exploit.
Ok, if it hasn't been change is just being rephrased. DW, I will go thru and delete any of sorts
 

Cosmickitty

Bog Frog
Platform
  1. iOS
Tbh, I think earth shammy did too much dps. Yes I think you shouldn’t be stuck in the bottom of the dps chart, but most 95 elder runs I did top dps was also tank. Earth and LW should sit about where ice used to be (rip ice) imo. Same place holy sits/used to sit. Top dps should always be pure dps classes. They have 1 job, they best be doing it. If I can heal and out dps then something’s wrong with the game or the player. Same with tank.

Now if earth can’t keep threat without being top dps, then that’s something that should definitely be addressed. I’d like to know if non ash tanks are having an issue, bc ash’s tank is crazy strong, if he can’t tank nobody can.
 

Dawnfire

Lumineer
Royal Guardian
Characters
Athon Dawnfire
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
I haven't seen any threat issues with LW/Hybrid tanking, save for the well known bug, but clearly you can't keep up with millions of damage in a few seconds. I agree with Cosmickitty that tank specs shouldn't be at the top of the charts. I think LW damage reduction is okay, I do understand that solowise this means less damage too, but you can always hybridize a bit for more, or if you enjoy the pure lightning fantasy, then just stick with that.
 

Antavious

Warrior
Characters
Antavious, suoivatna
Platform
  1. iOS
I haven't seen any threat issues with LW/Hybrid tanking, save for the well known bug, but clearly you can't keep up with millions of damage in a few seconds. I agree with Cosmickitty that tank specs shouldn't be at the top of the charts. I think LW damage reduction is okay, I do understand that solowise this means less damage too, but you can always hybridize a bit for more, or if you enjoy the pure lightning fantasy, then just stick with that.
Honestly you play the hybrid tank with a large focus on fury so you can’t really see the rift between lightning and your hybrid just got a lot bigger (the hybrid is the problem too much threat bonuses can be easily exploited by them) before my supercharged warrior was just a little behind and if I got in quick I could keep agro. now after the nerf….no chance. The question is are the devs ok with hybrids being superior threat tanks over lightning warrior if so fine but if not maybe adjust the threat bonuses so instead of boosting all threat they only boost the lightning moves this will correct the imbalance (threat will be more consistent to how much a hybrid invests in lightning over fury)

in other news I spent quite a bit of time looking at thunder claps and calculating how it compares to the last version.

good news is although it’s more rng dependant as long as lightning bolt can double back to the original target in instances where you have 2 targets or so the damage output of the move is about the same as before hence its a balanced exchange nice (also I kinda like it as it’s fun 🙂)

the bad news is this effect isn’t strong enough to counter the loss of damage on thunderbolt. So I came up with two fixes for this short coming the boring way simply put the bonus damage to thunderbolt back, the really cool fun way is keep to this theme of rng triggers and give thunderbolt a chance to reproc. To make up the loss of damage it would need a 30% chance to reproc up to 3 times max. I don’t think the extra ones Thunderbird strike proced off the 30 point talent ever had the damage boost so no need to change them but if im wrong and they did you simply can add it to them too, if Im right but you want to update/change them then you can simply lower the chance to proc to 15% that should keep the damage/threat outputs stable and back to where it was before the nerfs.
 

Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie, Neither
Platform
  1. PC
Holy's dps i garbage now lol thats why i stopped playing it because i had a dps build and i dont want to play healer but now its really the only way to play it so i moved on to another toon lol.
Switch to shadow instead?? Many years ago, I was hybrid (before Starfall). I stopped running that toon because I found that I hated being a healer about 2-3 years after creating that toon. After Starfall hit, I switched over to the dark side and actually started playing the toon again AND I was much happier!! :D

I generally don’t like discouraging people from playing a healer, but isn’t it better to switch subclasses instead of abandoning a toon completely? It’s so easy to switch subclasses, even when you’re at level cap.

Shadow is designed to be the dps priest subclass. Holy is meant to do decent damage, but the focus there is really meant to be on healing and shielding, not on high damage.
 
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Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Slowburn, Scab, Drakzy
Platform
  1. PC
i have my shadow gear and have switched on occasion but its not for me and not to mention shadow not as good as it was now either. i enjoyed playing the holy class as paladin build if you want to call it that it was base more on dps with the healing capabilities of a normal holy i just find sitting back and healing everyone is boring and frustration when people play stupid and put their toon is bad situations then rely on the priest to pull them out of it. So the way i played was as such i ran up front with tank or tanks and used cure to heal them and others who are in range of it i reserved Heal for when me or a tank needed it i also spammed bless on me or the tank that needed it to increase their armor and magic resist but thats over with now. The dps drop prevents my style of playing and the changes to cure, mass heal, and bless has dropped the survivability over all so now thats why i say its a healer class or nothing no versatility anymore i know the role a holy is suppose to play but gotts remember this game dont seem to follow any traditional roles on any class so all that's out the window.
 
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Lalocat

Adventurer
Characters
Lalocat Vla Laniss
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
I think what worries me personally the most about this process of class balancing is that it seems entirely focussed on forcing players into group roles, which apart from irritating those of us who like to choose for ourselves how our characters will play (ie to suit our own playstyle) also makes solo play slow and frustrating for many and downright impossible for some.

I have zero interest in grouping up for bounty runs and very limited interest in grouping for raids. I will do several hundred solo raids in a season and maybe a dozen in a group, but just for fun, not because I need those groups to progress. If I need a group to progress, I just won't do it.

Games in general are moving away from the "have to group to play" idea because it has limited appeal compared to "play how you want". For obvious reasons. This is a big step backwards imo.
 

Dawnfire

Lumineer
Royal Guardian
Characters
Athon Dawnfire
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
Honestly you play the hybrid tank with a large focus on fury so you can’t really see the rift between lightning and your hybrid just got a lot bigger (the hybrid is the problem too much threat bonuses can be easily exploited by them) before my supercharged warrior was just a little behind and if I got in quick I could keep agro. now after the nerf….no chance. The question is are the devs ok with hybrids being superior threat tanks over lightning warrior if so fine but if not maybe adjust the threat bonuses so instead of boosting all threat they only boost the lightning moves this will correct the imbalance (threat will be more consistent to how much a hybrid invests in lightning over fury)

This is completely wrong. First of all I'm not a large focus on fury, I'm fairly certain we run the same amount of fury feats (frenzied strike, slash, phoenix strike) the rest is lightning and majority of my points is lightning too. Though I can understand why you'd think that, seeing me out-dpsing and out-threating you with the same feats seems odd. But the real difference and the rift you speak of in this case is not between hybrid and lightning, it is how you gear yourself. You choose to be a defense focused tank, which is completely fine. I choose to be just tanky enough to survive all encounters and put the rest of my stats into offense. Clearly someone who can hit harder should generate more threat. Lightning talents and feats already have an edge over fury ones in threat generation, there's no need to increase it further. You only need enough threat to keep other non tanks safe. But sadly tank "competition" is a thing lately, and some tanks wanna out threat other tanks for no good reason. Hybrid is an option if you wanna do multiple roles, or make up for things your original role is lacking. I think many people enjoy hybrid builds, but if they are a problem, perhaps the question would be, why do people even hybridize in the first place? And those issues be solved. But personally I'd like to see hybrids stay, and see more support, as they allow for a lot more variety in builds than just sticking to your subclass.
 
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Jytal

Servant of Mallok
Platform
  1. iOS
In general, the changes are passive and are on talents or feats which does favor higher level players moreso than lower level players which, isn't that big of a problem that I've experienced yet except one... Marksman.

Marksman feel awful playing without a max socketed bow and high amounts of talent points.
Sap - 5pt ultimate talent, get stacks of sap for 10s when using slowing shot, crippling shot, and wounding shot. Slowing shot is a crafted feat with 14s cd, crippling shot is dropped with 40s cd, and wounding shot is another dropped feat with 20s cd. You will need at least two of these feats to maintain sap stacks but if you don't have enough cooldown reduction... it won't help. If you are a high level marksman you will probably have all 3 of these and a good amount of cooldown reduction where it is easy to gain and maintain these stacks.
Increasing the duration of holding the stack or reducing the cooldown of the feats will help lower level players but make it too easy for high level players. There will also be the struggle for lower levels of making sure they have these feats since one is crafted while two are dropped.

Deadly aim - 10pt talent, get up to 10 stacks by casting any marksman shots which last 10s which causes true shot to have more damage. This is the same problem as Sap with the duration but this one is a bit easier since you don't need the full stack amount BUT, you need to use multiple marksman shots repeatedly which favors more towards a full socketed feat bow.

Marked for death - 30pt talent, uses slowing shot, crippling shot, and wounding shot to add debuffs. This one is not as detrimental as sap and deadly aim.

Experience so far, I have not been able to enjoy marksman as much as before. I have to add more feats to even make use of my first two talents. I played marksman because I liked the support aspect of it but is now a dps with resistance debuffs which isn't as much of a problem to me except that the amount of work and effort needed to time feats (more feats) in a good rotation to get about the same amount of dps as before. Stacking deadly aim for big true shot hits is nice and will probably enjoy it more with a max feat bow but the amount extra effort now is not worth it.

Other dislike of marksman, removing the slow from debilitating shot for more damage debuff and reduced crit chance, I'm a ranged dps class, my goal is to not get hit, I don't want a talent which just decreases the damage I will take.
Not sure why Vengeance cooldown reduction was reduced to 30%, in group content it is hard to make sure you get the killing blow compared to others and with how it feels marksman feel at lower levels, murder proccing would be an immense help.
 

Antavious

Warrior
Characters
Antavious, suoivatna
Platform
  1. iOS
Last edited
This is completely wrong. First of all I'm not a large focus on fury, I'm fairly certain we run the same amount of fury feats (frenzied strike, slash, phoenix strike) the rest is lightning and majority of my points is lightning too. Though I can understand why you'd think that, seeing me out-dpsing and out-threating you with the same feats seems odd. But the real difference and the rift you speak of in this case is not between hybrid and lightning, it is how you gear yourself. You choose to be a defense focused tank, which is completely fine. I choose to be just tanky enough to survive all encounters and put the rest of my stats into offense. Clearly someone who can hit harder should generate more threat. Lightning talents and feats already have an edge over fury ones in threat generation, there's no need to increase it further. You only need enough threat to keep other non tanks safe. But sadly tank "competition" is a thing lately, and some tanks wanna out threat other tanks for no good reason. Hybrid is an option if you wanna do multiple roles, or make up for things your original role is lacking. I think many people enjoy hybrid builds, but if they are a problem, perhaps the question would be, why do people even hybridize in the first place? And those issues be solved. But personally I'd like to see hybrids stay, and see more support, as they allow for a lot more variety in builds than just sticking to your subclass.
I saw you running bloodlust lol bit rubbish if your not running at least another 2 fury moves, there a problem because there op. As it stands dps,threat and def potential for warriors are:

fury dps no.1 threat no. 3 def no.3
hybird dps no.2 threat no.1 def no.2
lightning dps no.3 threat no.2 def no.1

basically hybrid should be no.2 on threat as it’s an essential tanking tool, we could fix this one of 2 ways either increase lightning warriors threat (really bad idea as it hurts earth shaman) or decrease hybird threat (really easy/no brainier solution as there is no need for a hybrid dps tank to have higher threat than the pure lightning tank in the first place and it can still have mediocre/medium threat for those times other tanks aren’t in the mix) honestly competitiveness is the only reason not to make this change and that isn’t what this game is about. Last I checked.
 
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Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Slowburn, Scab, Drakzy
Platform
  1. PC
I saw you running bloodlust lol bit rubbish if your not running at least another 2 fury moves
well the simple way to solve it is to post pick of your builds then there no assumptions
 

Villy

Villager
Platform
  1. Android
Currently, are there still this "tank competition" on other servers? Even I do not even know if still a thing on Us1. I will gladly step away from tanking if some1 actually have an issue with me on Us1, but highly doubt that. My reason for holding aggro or doing more threat than another tank is in case if the one currently hold aggro refused to see or notice environmental effects or mechanics or safety of others (normally Event zones over the years, seldomly). More than often, im just doing my regular rotations or how I'm normally play as a Tank class.
I don't recognize any of all these issues on Us1, so I will just hush from now on. But, if on Us1 & I'm the issue, just say so because I have other toons I can play with.
:)
 

Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Slowburn, Scab, Drakzy
Platform
  1. PC
Currently, are there still this "tank competition" on other servers? Even I do not even know if still a thing on Us1. I will gladly step away from tanking if some1 actually have an issue with me on Us1, but highly doubt that. My reason for holding aggro or doing more threat than another tank is in case if the one currently hold aggro refused to see or notice environmental effects or mechanics or safety of others (normally Event zones over the years, seldomly). More than often, im just doing my regular rotations or how I'm normally play as a Tank class.
I don't recognize any of all these issues on Us1, so I will just hush from now on. But, if on Us1 & I'm the issue, just say so because I have other toons I can play with.
:)
pffft never surrender just take over!!! :p
 
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IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Currently, are there still this "tank competition" on other servers? Even I do not even know if still a thing on Us1. I will gladly step away from tanking if some1 actually have an issue with me on Us1, but highly doubt that. My reason for holding aggro or doing more threat than another tank is in case if the one currently hold aggro refused to see or notice environmental effects or mechanics or safety of others (normally Event zones over the years, seldomly). More than often, im just doing my regular rotations or how I'm normally play as a Tank class.
I don't recognize any of all these issues on Us1, so I will just hush from now on. But, if on Us1 & I'm the issue, just say so because I have other toons I can play with.
:)
Your toon is a tank, so if you grab aggro it doesn't matter who has it as long as the squishies don't get attacked.
 
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