Patch Notes Servers Down Thursday, March 16th for Mana Build

[Drakz]

Never said they were just pointing out the effect, lost damage means lost threat

damage is not where tanks threat is suppose to come from cause the threat with tanks its suppose to come from feat, abilities, things like that not how much damage they do tanks are meant to have a low damage output but high survivability basically everything they do almost should provide threat so if they are trying to rework the tanks properly then low dmg is a start but they need to ensure the talents and such all provide an threat output to compensate for it

 

[Ellusive]

damage is not where tanks threat is suppose to come from cause the threat with tanks its suppose to come from feat, abilities, things like that not how much damage they do tanks are meant to have a low damage output but high survivability basically everything they do almost should provide threat so if they are trying to rework the tanks properly then low dmg is a start but they need to ensure the talents and such all provide an threat output to compensate for it

Yes, I believe that is correct to an extent, you see there are these things called solo raids, if you want to be a tank it should not exclude you from game content due to someone’s perception of how the class “should” be.
Have you noticed that Earth shaman threat has increased? Look at where they are on the damage charts now.
The simple fact is that threat is tied to damage, ask any shadow priest or fire wizard.
I appreciate your input but you are not being helpful

 

[Drakz]

Yes, I believe that is correct to an extent, you see there are these things called solo raids, if you want to be a tank it should not exclude you from game content due to someone’s perception of how the class “should” be.
Have you noticed that Earth shaman threat has increased? Look at where they are on the damage charts now.
The simple fact is that threat is tied to damage, ask any shadow priest or fire wizard.
I appreciate your input but you are not being helpful

idk man all i can say is play other games and see what tanks are about. good luck and for the record i have a LW i played just today and he seem to do the same damage he did pre patch. Not saying your crazyy if you notice a drop in damage but just saying i didnt notice one is all

 

[Ellusive]

idk man all i can say is play other games and see what tanks are about. good luck and for the record i have a LW i played just today and he seem to do the same damage he did pre patch. Not saying your crazyy if you notice a drop in damage but just saying i didnt notice one is all

Your insults don’t make you right

 

[Antavious]

The bottom line is threat is tied to damage but I have two ideas for a fix to the issue:

1. the duration of the effect increases. This makes it viable to spread the effect more to other mobs in a group, might need trial and error to find a correct increase my guess 100% increase and see if that works better. Down side is that if the reason for this was to make it only useable with high investment in lightning (not a viable option for a op hybrid build) then this will undermine it.

or.

2. increasing the threat/damage of this effect making it it more worth wile to use enough lightning moves to actually proc it my suggestion is 300% standard weapon damage or stick to the 150% and add 300% threat bonus, down side is that it might undermine things if the intent was to nerf/weaken lightning warrior.

 

[Drakz]

The bottom line is threat is tied to damage but I have two ideas for a fix to the issue:

1. the duration of the effect increases. This makes it viable to spread the effect more to other mobs in a group, might need trial and error to find a correct increase my guess 100% increase and see if that works better. Down side is that if the reason for this was to make it only useable with high investment in lightning (not a viable option for a op hybrid build) then this will undermine it.

or.

2. increasing the threat/damage of this effect making it it more worth wile to use enough lightning moves to actually proc it my suggestion is 300% standard weapon damage or stick to the 150% and add 300% threat bonus, down side is that it might undermine things if the intent was to nerf/weaken lightning warrior.

lol in this game maybe but what can i say about that lol

 

[Halleebell]

Tanks are not meant to have a high dps ever they suppose have high threat through abilities/spells/talents what ever you want to call it but not high dps

Threat and damage pretty much go hand in hand in V&H. It’s gotten better over the years but you still need a decent amount of continuous damage to keep threat.
another negative from that, is the amount of time it will take to do bounty runs. Tanks are somewhat slow soloing. this just added more time to an already tedious process.
. But mana was good. ….
I also don’t really have a problem with mana. I typically build or try to build a balanced char. So who knows what others are seeing.

 

[Drakz]

yes ty Hallee thats why i was saying if they are trying to fix the builds then that would explain why tanks dps went down cuz in the gaming world tanks generally have mediocre dps at best so it would make sense to drop the dps and adjust the threat output of the talents and such because normally a tank gains threat basically from just swinging a sword at the enemy i dont know what the devs vision is on the tank but was simply stating what the norm is in the gaming world. Now paladin in WoW had some crazy dps at times but that was not a pure tank.

 

[Majenta]

yes ty Hallee thats why i was saying if they are trying to fix the builds then that would explain why tanks dps went down cuz in the gaming world tanks generally have mediocre dps at best so it would make sense to drop the dps and adjust the threat output of the talents and such because normally a tank gains threat basically from just swinging a sword at the enemy i dont know what the devs vision is on the tank but was simply stating what the norm is in the gaming world. Now paladin in WoW had some crazy dps at times but that was not a pure tank.

I think you are talking at cross purposes.

Yes, traditionally, tanks have lower dps as a trade off for their better armour and sustainability.

Also yes, in THIS game, aggro is generated through damage as well as "threat" so unless you can maintain a decent level of dps you will find it hard if not impossible to hold aggro.

Having said that, other than in games built almost exclusively around group content, the traditional tank has pretty much disappeared from MMOs, principally because the vast majority of MMOs are nowadays designed to be solo friendly. The problem with having a tank class which is high in armour but downright low in dps, is that that makes them boring and slow to level.

I think what worries me personally the most about this process of class balancing is that it seems entirely focussed on forcing players into group roles, which apart from irritating those of us who like to choose for ourselves how our characters will play (ie to suit our own playstyle) also makes solo play slow and frustrating for many and downright impossible for some.

 

[Antavious]

I'm unable to reproduce this, can you send in a bug report? As soon as the 5th charge is hit it should automatically trigger the discharge effect, so it won't show as 5 charges. Perhaps the effect is too subdued and difficult to see? Discharge will also only deal damage to enemies surrounding the target, but not to the target itself.

This is what the effect should look like - it looks quite similar to blasting so it may be mistaken for that.
View attachment 19058

Ouch the main target dosent get anything? No wonder it feels so bad with this it won’t even come close to making up for the removed damage. heres how I calculate given my old numbers how the moves are now for damage/threat.

charge down 15%
Pummel down 12% a little mitigated due to the better cool-downs on the talent.
lighning bolt down 57.5%, can the chaining effect re hit a target after being hit once? Still even if it can needs min of two targets so useless in a lot of content.
thunderbolt down 57.5%
thunderbird strike down15%, but might be down an extra 15% or so (not sure if the bonus thunderbolts from the talent where getting the extra damage before, I know they were weaker than the feat was)

the new effects as they currently are are only helpful if there is more than 1 mob in a fight so no help at all in most boss fights (places where damage matters) once I experimented with a aoe orientated tank (shaman hybrid has much better tools for this than lightning warrior think water shield, tidal wave, wind shears, erosion tons of blasting and as much def as you can muster) it was loads of fun in group zones like pyrus maps but so bad/useless elsewhere (some raids where unplayable) if that’s what your aiming for hear it’s flat-out terrible. Just won’t be fun in 75% of the game.

still not 100% sure about the reasons/motivations for these changes. Pre patch fully invested lightning warriors where already falling short to heavy dps hybrids in threat/damage output. my toon is perfect def, good efficiency but was/is a bit mediocre in threat and damage granted I could dominate anything in the game be it soloing the 95 elders or having the highest catacombs difficulty complete on the server but I was slow, the price you pay for being close to immortal and it was a fair price (I’m the only one I know willing to fully pay it)

honestly I wasn’t expecting the horrible weakness my toon had to get any better but I definitely wasn’t expecting it to get worse

 

[AshCloud]

I went from being able to out threat most anything on US3 to this. I have more images of when my sham became secondary tank To a dps class. Tell me the logic here. You broke shamans. But I’ve mentioned this multiple places and got told it will not be reverted back to the old erosion. If that’s the intent then shams need more threat gen.

 

[V]

View attachment 19068
I went from being able to out threat most anything on US3 to this. I have more images of when my sham became secondary tank To a dps class. Tell me the logic here. You broke shamans. But I’ve mentioned this multiple places and got told it will not be reverted back to the old erosion. If that’s the intent then shams need more threat gen.

See here:

There is currently an issue with some Hunter spells resulting in unintended damage and will be fixed in a coming patch.

If not for the hunter damage bug, your threat would have been at the top. So it seems to be working as intended. To truly evaluate the changes, it is best to wait until the fixes are in place though.

 

[AshCloud]

See here:



If not for the hunter damage bug, your threat would have been at the top. So it seems to be working as intended. To truly evaluate the changes, it is best to wait until the fixes are in place though.

Look at how close the other classes are to me.. that’s not working how it’s intended

 

[AshCloud]

 

[AshCloud]

View attachment 19071

 

[AshCloud]

 

[AshCloud]

View attachment 19073

Pre patch I would be close to 6-9m threat compared to dps now it’s double. So how is that working as intended if my threat is decreased that much?

 

[Grz]

Tanks are not meant to have a high dps ever they suppose have high threat through abilities/spells/talents what ever you want to call it but not high dps

Going by this logic, healers shouldn't do squat with dps and just do their job of healing. Where's the fun in that. I'm sure you get the point.

 

[AshCloud]

Going by this logic, healers shouldn't do squat with dps and just do their job of healing. Where's the fun in that. I'm sure you get the point.

Agreed. I’m gonna miss being able to dps and tank. To me that’s more value added in group content while still keeping solo play bearable. vs solo play being unbearable and group you just do one thing.

 

[Drakz]

Going by this logic, healers shouldn't do squat with dps and just do their job of healing. Where's the fun in that. I'm sure you get the point.

Holy's dps i garbage now lol thats why i stopped playing it because i had a dps build and i dont want to play healer but now its really the only way to play it so i moved on to another toon lol.