Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
snip
Changed the primary method of displaying gear and talents to use the former system of "Stat Pools" instead of the raw stat values. We did this in response to a player poll that overwhelmingly preferred Pool values by a margin of nearly 12 to 1.
snip
My emphasis
 

CaraLox

Jack Of All Trades
Characters
Loxana/Mrs Doubtfire/Cara Lox/ShamRoc/Klinger
Platform
iOS, PC
If I rebirth during Vale, do my quests reset?
Pretty sure yes. In general I’ve heard rebirthing during events is discouraged. I dont think you can redo them. Only one way to find out though.... 😈
 

KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
The old stat system that you brought back does absolutely nothing in terms of understanding how much more your feats will be powerful.
The new one we had was very good as it shows % based and one would know how much one would get before diminishing returns. Also, the consumables and trinkets, etc were self-explanatory, wheres now you don't have a clue how much 7000 intellect will give you in mana for example.

Diminishing returns are not fixed, you just added some numbers that are always flat for those who go by them, but still, they don't say much.

The new system we had actually made sense, and it is common sense that having 5 stars legendary stat and adding 10% CDR will not equal that or even close, the same way 6000 flat expertise will not add the same value in CDR or even close to it when added at 30k.

I have no idea why you just don't focus on incorporating diminishing returns in each item for each player so they know how much it will give them with their current setup and leave the fresh new stat system we had this year on.

Now there is a mixed system which is even more confusing for new players.
You're absolutely right, and it frustrates me to no end that we're now back to square one when we were on the cusp of removing diminishing returns. I wish Damon had ignored all complaints and finished realizing his vision rather than allowing the community to judge and push back the half-baked version of it. With diminishing returns removed, we would be able to equip an item with 5% armor and watch our armor go up exactly 5%. We would no longer have stats, spells and talents that may ignore diminishing returns and may not. And of course, would be able to have a complete breakdown of how each and every stat was built up!

For example, if we had a critical chance of 20% then the system could actually provide us the following breakdown without diminishing returns getting in the way:
  • 4% critical chance from Origin Bonus
  • 5% critical chance from Helm
  • 6% critical chance from Gloves
  • 5% critical chance from Weapon
This type of breakdown is simply impossible with the current system. Now, we actually have less information than ever before.

We can no longer see base values of our attributes. According to this, I have no health and mana regeneration at all. So if I lose health, I will never ever regain it on my own correct? No. It's just that the base is no longer displayed.
1620218923239.png
We can no longer see the caps for our stats:
1620219028969.png
And finally, here is our end result, where points are not subject to diminishing returns, but the stats that they build up are subject to diminishing returns, and the attributes that those stats feed into are not subject to diminishing returns.
1620219153991.png
This is not clear or simple. This is not new player or old player friendly. But for some reason, this is what the community wanted. Why? Because apparently it is accurate. Really? Let's see just how accurate it is.

Here is my Armor piece, stating that it gives me 34% critical damage:
1620219273664.png
Here is my current critical damage:
1620219288676.png
So, with this old accurate system, if I remove my armor, my critical damage should drop by 34.55% right? Because in the previous 'new' system, when it didn't drop by the stated value, players quickly criticized it for that deficiency. I remove my armor and ...
1620219372884.png
Only a 14% drop in critical damage. So how is this any better than the previous 'new' system? It's exactly the same. The only difference is that the stat pools will drop by the specified amount. But does that actually help though, when a 5,000 point drop from a total of 30,000 points produces a substantially different result than a 5,000 point drop from a total of 10,000 points?

What I mean to say is, my brutality dropped by 5,000 points from its total value of 33,000 points which resulted in a 14% drop in critical damage. So my brutality is currently sitting at 28,000 points. If I drop it another 5,000 points, will I lose another 14% critical damage? No, that's not how it works, and thus the entire 'point' system is meaningless. It does not provide anything useful for which to gauge stat fluctuations. It just goes up and down accurately when adding and removing gear, which is exactly what would happen with percentages if diminishing returns were removed.

I apologize for how this post came across, but I am frustrated and disappointed by how close we came to a simple and accurate simple, only to regress back to the starting line. Yes, diminishing returns would have required a substantial amount of rebalancing for stats, talents and spells. Personally, I think it would have been well worth it.
 

Ekimie

Hunter
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
I would really like it if the spawntime of the small bosses in vale could be reduced to half a minute or a minute. for each you have to stand waiting around for about 2 minutes before you can kill it. if you are unlucky you see it going down in the distance while running towards it and you have to wait even longer.
 

Halleebell

Squirrel
Characters
Hallee/Freyra
Platform
iOS, PC
You're absolutely right, and it frustrates me to no end that we're now back to square one when we were on the cusp of removing diminishing returns. I wish Damon had ignored all complaints and finished realizing his vision rather than allowing the community to judge and push back the half-baked version of it. With diminishing returns removed, we would be able to equip an item with 5% armor and watch our armor go up exactly 5%. We would no longer have stats, spells and talents that may ignore diminishing returns and may not. And of course, would be able to have a complete breakdown of how each and every stat was built up!

For example, if we had a critical chance of 20% then the system could actually provide us the following breakdown without diminishing returns getting in the way:
  • 4% critical chance from Origin Bonus
  • 5% critical chance from Helm
  • 6% critical chance from Gloves
  • 5% critical chance from Weapon
This type of breakdown is simply impossible with the current system. Now, we actually have less information than ever before.

We can no longer see base values of our attributes. According to this, I have no health and mana regeneration at all. So if I lose health, I will never ever regain it on my own correct? No. It's just that the base is no longer displayed.
View attachment 12564
We can no longer see the caps for our stats:
View attachment 12565
And finally, here is our end result, where points are not subject to diminishing returns, but the stats that they build up are subject to diminishing returns, and the attributes that those stats feed into are not subject to diminishing returns.
View attachment 12566
This is not clear or simple. This is not new player or old player friendly. But for some reason, this is what the community wanted. Why? Because apparently it is accurate. Really? Let's see just how accurate it is.

Here is my Armor piece, stating that it gives me 34% critical damage:
View attachment 12567
Here is my current critical damage:
View attachment 12568
So, with this old accurate system, if I remove my armor, my critical damage should drop by 34.55% right? Because in the previous 'new' system, when it didn't drop by the stated value, players quickly criticized it for that deficiency. I remove my armor and ...
View attachment 12569
Only a 14% drop in critical damage. So how is this any better than the previous 'new' system? It's exactly the same. The only difference is that the stat pools will drop by the specified amount. But does that actually help though, when a 5,000 point drop from a total of 30,000 points produces a substantially different result than a 5,000 point drop from a total of 10,000 points?

What I mean to say is, my brutality dropped by 5,000 points from its total value of 33,000 points which resulted in a 14% drop in critical damage. So my brutality is currently sitting at 28,000 points. If I drop it another 5,000 points, will I lose another 14% critical damage? No, that's not how it works, and thus the entire 'point' system is meaningless. It does not provide anything useful for which to gauge stat fluctuations. It just goes up and down accurately when adding and removing gear, which is exactly what would happen with percentages if diminishing returns were removed.

I apologize for how this post came across, but I am frustrated and disappointed by how close we came to a simple and accurate simple, only to regress back to the starting line. Yes, diminishing returns would have required a substantial amount of rebalancing for stats, talents and spells. Personally, I think it would have been well worth it.
Or they never should have never changed it to begin with and left it alone. There was zero problems with the way it was. But because some people said it was to hard to understand....... they changed it. Taking away vital information players wanted and needed. Some of the points you made we had in the pervious setup and they removed those with the last change... what they should of done was not implement something that was not finished and waited until it was. But what they did was take away vital information while giving us half finished work, expecting players to just be happy. one of the biggest aspects of our game play was dwindled down to a guessing game. Personally that pissed me off. It wasn’t a complaint. I had zero idea what I was crafting for my alt, I had zero idea what my alts gear was going to diminish too. Where before I new exactly what I was getting. So maybe if players would stop trying to change a system that worked we wouldnt be here.
 

KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
Or they never should have never changed it to begin with and left it alone. There was zero problems with the way it was. But because some people said it was to hard to understand....... they changed it.
The old stat system had many problems, and accessibility was one of its primary issues. Out of every 1 player that understood how it worked, there were 10 that looked at the character sheet without an idea of where to begin. Diminishing returns for example is a key mechanism in the stat system, yet it is not mentioned anywhere in-game. Additionally, having multiple layers of abstraction - the point pools, the stat values and the attributes - adds unnecessary complexity to what should be a basic and streamlined system.

The one thing that I do agree with, is this:

what they should of done was not implement something that was not finished and waited until it was.
 

sirbabbo

Warrior
Platform
iOS
The old stat system had many problems, and accessibility was one of its primary issues. Out of every 1 player that understood how it worked, there were 10 that looked at the character sheet without an idea of where to begin. Diminishing returns for example is a key mechanism in the stat system, yet it is not mentioned anywhere in-game. Additionally, having multiple layers of abstraction - the point pools, the stat values and the attributes - adds unnecessary complexity to what should be a basic and streamlined system.

The one thing that I do agree with, is this:

We had a vote and unfortunately the vast majority had in favor in the old system. I get some didn’t want and a lot more did but based off the results the devs made their right call and they wanted to make sure it was the correct way and we should respect the outcome. We all had the chance to provide our evidence on what we feel is the correct way, in the vote thread and we can respectfully agree or disagree since we provided both sides of the spectrum on evidence and the outcome was in favor of one. The outcome was 12:1 so I respect the winning side and in all honestly if the devs had a concern this wouldn’t of happened.

Respectfully Babbs.
 

Zaphyra

Master Villager
Characters
Retired
Platform
Android, PC
You're absolutely right, and it frustrates me to no end that we're now back to square one when we were on the cusp of removing diminishing returns. I wish Damon had ignored all complaints and finished realizing his vision rather than allowing the community to judge and push back the half-baked version of it. With diminishing returns removed, we would be able to equip an item with 5% armor and watch our armor go up exactly 5%. We would no longer have stats, spells and talents that may ignore diminishing returns and may not. And of course, would be able to have a complete breakdown of how each and every stat was built up!

For example, if we had a critical chance of 20% then the system could actually provide us the following breakdown without diminishing returns getting in the way:
  • 4% critical chance from Origin Bonus
  • 5% critical chance from Helm
  • 6% critical chance from Gloves
  • 5% critical chance from Weapon
This type of breakdown is simply impossible with the current system. Now, we actually have less information than ever before.

We can no longer see base values of our attributes. According to this, I have no health and mana regeneration at all. So if I lose health, I will never ever regain it on my own correct? No. It's just that the base is no longer displayed.
View attachment 12564
We can no longer see the caps for our stats:
View attachment 12565
And finally, here is our end result, where points are not subject to diminishing returns, but the stats that they build up are subject to diminishing returns, and the attributes that those stats feed into are not subject to diminishing returns.
View attachment 12566
This is not clear or simple. This is not new player or old player friendly. But for some reason, this is what the community wanted. Why? Because apparently it is accurate. Really? Let's see just how accurate it is.

Here is my Armor piece, stating that it gives me 34% critical damage:
View attachment 12567
Here is my current critical damage:
View attachment 12568
So, with this old accurate system, if I remove my armor, my critical damage should drop by 34.55% right? Because in the previous 'new' system, when it didn't drop by the stated value, players quickly criticized it for that deficiency. I remove my armor and ...
View attachment 12569
Only a 14% drop in critical damage. So how is this any better than the previous 'new' system? It's exactly the same. The only difference is that the stat pools will drop by the specified amount. But does that actually help though, when a 5,000 point drop from a total of 30,000 points produces a substantially different result than a 5,000 point drop from a total of 10,000 points?

What I mean to say is, my brutality dropped by 5,000 points from its total value of 33,000 points which resulted in a 14% drop in critical damage. So my brutality is currently sitting at 28,000 points. If I drop it another 5,000 points, will I lose another 14% critical damage? No, that's not how it works, and thus the entire 'point' system is meaningless. It does not provide anything useful for which to gauge stat fluctuations. It just goes up and down accurately when adding and removing gear, which is exactly what would happen with percentages if diminishing returns were removed.

I apologize for how this post came across, but I am frustrated and disappointed by how close we came to a simple and accurate simple, only to regress back to the starting line. Yes, diminishing returns would have required a substantial amount of rebalancing for stats, talents and spells. Personally, I think it would have been well worth it.
I'd also like to see diminishing returns removed and a solid cap given in the tool-tips, so we know how close we are to maxing each stat and once maxed, we can place points elsewhere.

For example... "You have 1500/2000 possible points in Poise, giving you 15% increased damage when your health is above 95%."

This tool-tip tells me that 100 points = 1% increased damage and I may add up to 500 more points, to max my Poise at 20% increased damage.

If all stats were explained in this simple fashion, then players could easily understand the value of the points on their gear and decide which stats, will most benefit their build.
 
Top