Tomgtu

Hero
Platform
iOS
So, I am here to ask this question as a regular player, who happens to like play as ice wizard. I have try to find people to figure out the ideal build up and team role for my too. So far I have found few lv caped ice wiz and tons of fire wiz. When I asked about building up ice wizard the answer I often get is to either do hybrid or switch to fire. The role of fire wiz, when caped, is dps. It can be made to compete with shadow priest and hunters. But what is the role of ice wizard? Often times, the stuns for ice wizard spells does not work on bosses, especially in raid. It cannot out put enough dps to mont to anything, and definitely no healing or tanking. So, how do I make my wizard a team player? Or should I forget it? If so what’s the point of having that class? If anyone has good ice wizard build, pls help me. I only feel useful when my toon is lv90s and that’s not allot use....
 

IoOvOo

Wizard
Characters
loOvOo
Platform
Android, PC
When I asked about building up ice wizard the answer I often get is to either do hybrid or switch to fire.
🤔你是说一点火的天赋也不加吗。。?冰里有的天赋几乎完全没用,所以满级以后天赋点会多出不少啊。
Translation: You mean, not even a single talent point in Fire...? Some talents in Ice are nearly useless, so there would be lots of extra talent points when u are capped.
 
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Dawnfire

Great Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
Athon Dawnfire
Platform
Android, PC
I'll assume you mean pure ice build. Ice wizard is a safer bet for solo play, but it can also bring some utility for group play (however fire knida outshines it in almost every aspect for now). Ice wizard plays as DPS just like fire, though it will deal considerably less damage overall. What it brings to groups over pure fire wizards are: Brittling Chill (-20% Armor/Magic Resist to enemies) and Bitter Chill (enemies lose Attack Speed, allies gain Mastery). If you enjoy playing pure ice and don't mind lower dps for a bit more support that's it.

However if you don't mind going a more hybrid route there'd be more dps oriented options while offering the same benefits (although fire wizards can take that talent as well since it's only 5 points and only takes a single feat slot, making them lose a raction of their dps, but increasing team dps by quite a bit, if no ice wizards are around)
 

KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
I'll start of by stating that my Ice Wizard is only level 75, so you have much more experience in the class than I do. That being said, I've run with a good assortment of Ice Wizards and I think many feel the same as you. The class relies too heavily on crowd control status effects such as slows which aren't as imperative in group fights when every class has access to a few stuns.

That is the main issue with Ice right off the bat - it's a 'one trick pony' that revolves around a single status effect: Slows. Even Shadow priest has Darkfrost to slow enemy movement, and Nature hunters have 1 or even 2 talents that do the same. They also have much more to offer to the team beyond that whereas Ice wizards do not. If enemies have high resistances, or start to gain immunity, then Ice loses the only purpose it has, and instead has to contribute as a mediocre damage dealer.

In terms of solo play Ice is a very stable and resilient sub-class. Ranged attacker with access to control effects and decent defensive measures makes them a good class to pick up in that regard. I've even seen Ice Wizards tank in the old dungeons quite well!

I still think Ice is in need of improvement in terms of versatility, and according to this poll on Discord, many are in agreement:
1593352610514.png
What Ice needs is a way to act on status effects. Not only their own, but that of their allies as well. This will make them a powerhouse for group play, as it will be a unique trait which is exclusive for them.

Here's how I imagine it could work:

Shatter: Ice should be able to 'Shatter' enemies that are encased in incapacitation effects such as from Deep Freeze. This is done by casting Hoarfrost on an encased enemy. It will 'shatter' them, resulting in damage to the targeted enemy as well as AOE damage to nearby foes. Once shattered, an enemy is immune to status effects for the next 5 seconds. This will add purpose to Hoarfrost and increase the ice AOE capability. This ability will be gained from the 30 point ultimate which is conveniently named Shatter..

Pierce: Ice can also 'Pierce' enemies that have movement or attack speed debuffs. This applies to debuffs applied by other classes such as Nature and Shadow as well! Ice wizards can pierce an enemy by either using Glacial Spike or Ice Storm. Meaning that ice wizards should choose the best tool for the scenario (single vs group). Enemies who are pierced will no longer suffer from their speed debuffs, will be immune to additional status effects for 5 seconds and will be hit for 250% bonus ice damage. This will replace the Thermal Core ultimate. The effects from the Thermal Core ultimate will simply be added on to the Thermal Shell talent.

Frostbite: Finally, Frostbite is an effect that ice wizards can apply to stunned, dazed or crushed enemies. This effect can be applied from Ice Javelin or Frost Nova. It will cause the enemy to take Ice damage over 10 seconds. For that duration they are immune to other status effects. After the 10 seconds have passed, they will automatically be frozen, giving them movement and attack speed impairment and opening them up to the 'Pierce' effect. Frostbite should replace Frost Dominance. With each point in that talent, the damage over time is increased.

Next, the Ice necklace needs to change. Here is what I would recommend for the Ice necklace spell Crystallize:

Crystallize: Place an Ice rune underneath your target, slowing their movement speed. If the target remains on the rune for 5 seconds then they will be encased in ice similar to the effect from Deep Freeze.

Finally, we'll add one more ability to ice by replacing the boring Ultimate that is cold-blooded.

Cold-Blooded: After casting 100 ice spells, your veins run thick with ice. Bitter Chill will automatically refresh, and all ice spells will deal additional ice damage. All ice spells will also have a chance to encase the enemy in a block of ice. This effect lasts for 15 seconds.

The point of all these is to introduce some combos to ice wizards, where they can build up status effects and 'detonate' them in a way akin to Shadow Priests. Allowing them to do this to other sub-class's status effects will make them pivotal to any CC heavy team.
 

Tomgtu

Hero
Platform
iOS
I'll start of by stating that my Ice Wizard is only level 75, so you have much more experience in the class than I do. That being said, I've run with a good assortment of Ice Wizards and I think many feel the same as you. The class relies too heavily on crowd control status effects such as slows which aren't as imperative in group fights when every class has access to a few stuns.

That is the main issue with Ice right off the bat - it's a 'one trick pony' that revolves around a single status effect: Slows. Even Shadow priest has Darkfrost to slow enemy movement, and Nature hunters have 1 or even 2 talents that do the same. They also have much more to offer to the team beyond that whereas Ice wizards do not. If enemies have high resistances, or start to gain immunity, then Ice loses the only purpose it has, and instead has to contribute as a mediocre damage dealer.

In terms of solo play Ice is a very stable and resilient sub-class. Ranged attacker with access to control effects and decent defensive measures makes them a good class to pick up in that regard. I've even seen Ice Wizards tank in the old dungeons quite well!

I still think Ice is in need of improvement in terms of versatility, and according to this poll on Discord, many are in agreement:
View attachment 7962
What Ice needs is a way to act on status effects. Not only their own, but that of their allies as well. This will make them a powerhouse for group play, as it will be a unique trait which is exclusive for them.

Here's how I imagine it could work:

Shatter: Ice should be able to 'Shatter' enemies that are encased in incapacitation effects such as from Deep Freeze. This is done by casting Hoarfrost on an encased enemy. It will 'shatter' them, resulting in damage to the targeted enemy as well as AOE damage to nearby foes. Once shattered, an enemy is immune to status effects for the next 5 seconds. This will add purpose to Hoarfrost and increase the ice AOE capability. This ability will be gained from the 30 point ultimate which is conveniently named Shatter..

Pierce: Ice can also 'Pierce' enemies that have movement or attack speed debuffs. This applies to debuffs applied by other classes such as Nature and Shadow as well! Ice wizards can pierce an enemy by either using Glacial Spike or Ice Storm. Meaning that ice wizards should choose the best tool for the scenario (single vs group). Enemies who are pierced will no longer suffer from their speed debuffs, will be immune to additional status effects for 5 seconds and will be hit for 250% bonus ice damage. This will replace the Thermal Core ultimate. The effects from the Thermal Core ultimate will simply be added on to the Thermal Shell talent.

Frostbite: Finally, Frostbite is an effect that ice wizards can apply to stunned, dazed or crushed enemies. This effect can be applied from Ice Javelin or Frost Nova. It will cause the enemy to take Ice damage over 10 seconds. For that duration they are immune to other status effects. After the 10 seconds have passed, they will automatically be frozen, giving them movement and attack speed impairment and opening them up to the 'Pierce' effect. Frostbite should replace Frost Dominance. With each point in that talent, the damage over time is increased.

Next, the Ice necklace needs to change. Here is what I would recommend for the Ice necklace spell Crystallize:

Crystallize: Place an Ice rune underneath your target, slowing their movement speed. If the target remains on the rune for 5 seconds then they will be encased in ice similar to the effect from Deep Freeze.

Finally, we'll add one more ability to ice by replacing the boring Ultimate that is cold-blooded.

Cold-Blooded: After casting 100 ice spells, your veins run thick with ice. Bitter Chill will automatically refresh, and all ice spells will deal additional ice damage. All ice spells will also have a chance to encase the enemy in a block of ice. This effect lasts for 15 seconds.

The point of all these is to introduce some combos to ice wizards, where they can build up status effects and 'detonate' them in a way akin to Shadow Priests. Allowing them to do this to other sub-class's status effects will make them pivotal to any CC heavy team.
this is exactly what I was hoping for! Thank you so much! There’s a lot to disgust, but one thing you pointed out i absolutely true is that ice necklace is useless. i hate having crystal mentality (I think it’s called?) on the slot. for it to have any effect you have to wait at least 30 seconds when the enemy is froze. During that time I could cast 3-4 spells that could already taken down the anemia and some more. It is completely useless in the group fight, cause no one will wait 30 seconds just to get one effect. So I’m kind stuck with one necklace rune that sorta useful, sometimes.

but anyways, thank you so much For the response!
cant wait for mathfishes analysis. I’m gonna be the greatest ice wizard alive! Wahahaha!
 

Math Fish

Squirrel
Characters
Math Fish (M Hunter), Shama Fisha (W Shaman), Accursed Angelfish (S Priest)
Platform
Steam
Sorry, I actually don't know a thing about Ice Wizards. I know they slow stuff and use ice attacks from range. That's about it. lol
 

IoOvOo

Wizard
Characters
loOvOo
Platform
Android, PC
I'll start of by stating that my Ice Wizard is only level 75, so you have much more experience in the class than I do. That being said, I've run with a good assortment of Ice Wizards and I think many feel the same as you. The class relies too heavily on crowd control status effects such as slows which aren't as imperative in group fights when every class has access to a few stuns.

That is the main issue with Ice right off the bat - it's a 'one trick pony' that revolves around a single status effect: Slows. Even Shadow priest has Darkfrost to slow enemy movement, and Nature hunters have 1 or even 2 talents that do the same. They also have much more to offer to the team beyond that whereas Ice wizards do not. If enemies have high resistances, or start to gain immunity, then Ice loses the only purpose it has, and instead has to contribute as a mediocre damage dealer.

In terms of solo play Ice is a very stable and resilient sub-class. Ranged attacker with access to control effects and decent defensive measures makes them a good class to pick up in that regard. I've even seen Ice Wizards tank in the old dungeons quite well!

I still think Ice is in need of improvement in terms of versatility, and according to this poll on Discord, many are in agreement:
View attachment 7962
What Ice needs is a way to act on status effects. Not only their own, but that of their allies as well. This will make them a powerhouse for group play, as it will be a unique trait which is exclusive for them.

Here's how I imagine it could work:

Shatter: Ice should be able to 'Shatter' enemies that are encased in incapacitation effects such as from Deep Freeze. This is done by casting Hoarfrost on an encased enemy. It will 'shatter' them, resulting in damage to the targeted enemy as well as AOE damage to nearby foes. Once shattered, an enemy is immune to status effects for the next 5 seconds. This will add purpose to Hoarfrost and increase the ice AOE capability. This ability will be gained from the 30 point ultimate which is conveniently named Shatter..

Pierce: Ice can also 'Pierce' enemies that have movement or attack speed debuffs. This applies to debuffs applied by other classes such as Nature and Shadow as well! Ice wizards can pierce an enemy by either using Glacial Spike or Ice Storm. Meaning that ice wizards should choose the best tool for the scenario (single vs group). Enemies who are pierced will no longer suffer from their speed debuffs, will be immune to additional status effects for 5 seconds and will be hit for 250% bonus ice damage. This will replace the Thermal Core ultimate. The effects from the Thermal Core ultimate will simply be added on to the Thermal Shell talent.

Frostbite: Finally, Frostbite is an effect that ice wizards can apply to stunned, dazed or crushed enemies. This effect can be applied from Ice Javelin or Frost Nova. It will cause the enemy to take Ice damage over 10 seconds. For that duration they are immune to other status effects. After the 10 seconds have passed, they will automatically be frozen, giving them movement and attack speed impairment and opening them up to the 'Pierce' effect. Frostbite should replace Frost Dominance. With each point in that talent, the damage over time is increased.

Next, the Ice necklace needs to change. Here is what I would recommend for the Ice necklace spell Crystallize:

Crystallize: Place an Ice rune underneath your target, slowing their movement speed. If the target remains on the rune for 5 seconds then they will be encased in ice similar to the effect from Deep Freeze.

Finally, we'll add one more ability to ice by replacing the boring Ultimate that is cold-blooded.

Cold-Blooded: After casting 100 ice spells, your veins run thick with ice. Bitter Chill will automatically refresh, and all ice spells will deal additional ice damage. All ice spells will also have a chance to encase the enemy in a block of ice. This effect lasts for 15 seconds.

The point of all these is to introduce some combos to ice wizards, where they can build up status effects and 'detonate' them in a way akin to Shadow Priests. Allowing them to do this to other sub-class's status effects will make them pivotal to any CC heavy team.
Kave I have read ur post about class balance. You still think cold blooded is underpowered now 🤔 ?
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
If something have to be changed for Ice Wizard, Thermal Shell and Thermal Core combo should be the main target because they're just the worst possible talent/ultimate in game. As far as single target damage goes, I believe Ice wizard damage is about equal to the other classes. while their AoE dps feel like the worst of all class.

My suggestion is similar to Kave's but I personally just want Thermal's pair changed into something a long this line.
Shattered Ice (talent)
"When your stun or slow is resisted your ice spell explode and deal 10% (200%) standard level damage"

Absolute Zero
(ultimate)
"Deep Freeze now ignore 50% of enemy stun resistance

because I feel like they should retain a little bit of crowd control ability no matter what, this way Deep Freeze will be able to stun enemy no matter what for at least 5 second, which can be super useful for like preventing Lannox from killing, Jacinda from moving, Valax from exploding etc.
 
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KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
Kave I have read ur post about class balance. You still think cold blooded is underpowered now 🤔 ?
Yes. As I mentioned in the OP of that thread, the reasoning behind that stance is because it is a 40 point ultimate that adds absolutely nothing dynamic to the class. If all talents & ultimates did was increase damage of random spells then I think many would agree that they would be rather stale. Ice doesn't need extra damage tacked onto each of their abilities. They need combo and chain mechanics like other classes which will enable them to increase damage output under the correct circumstances.
 
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IoOvOo

Wizard
Characters
loOvOo
Platform
Android, PC
Yes. As I mentioned in the OP of that thread, the reasoning behind that stance is because it is a 40 point ultimate that adds absolutely nothing dynamic to the class. If all talents & ultimates did was increase damage of random spells then I think many would agree that they would be rather stale. Ice doesn't need extra damage tacked onto each of their abilities. They need combo and chain mechanics like other classes which will enable them to increase damage output under the correct circumstances.
Aha, you mean the ultimate is boring, then I can't agree more xd.
I was pure ice until HoS was added and I started to max cauterize to refresh bitter chill, which is one of two reasons that my build is still based on Ice (that means focus on ice mastery and most of damage comes from ice spells). Another reason is cold blooded. It makes ice javelin a super great spell and sadly ice wizards rely on it for single target dmg in the long runs.
From my experience, cold blooded has similar power to the ultimates of other 'affinities'. That doesn't mean no change is desired. Actually it's not 'underpowered' but 'no fun', coz redesign instead of buff is needed.
Compared to fire and other dd (even Marksman), ice wizard feels like a collection of talents and spells that have no association with each other and are pieced together. And some of them are obviously underpowered. Namely, thermal shell and core, frost dominance, shatter, frost barrier, ice shield, crystallize....(long list anyway). While fire wizards have too many talents to choose so that they are always lack of talent points, ice wizards are always wondering where to put the left points in. And I can't agree more that combo and chain mechanics for ice are desirable!!
 

Rubyn

Arch Wizard
Characters
Rubyn
Platform
Android, PC
While something doesn't change pure ice has no real role in group play. It's excellent for leveling, my favorite, but at group play it gets outshined by everyone else, even on cap, fully rb, socketed. It doesn't offer anything special to group that hybrid can't and hybrid would do it even better. That's main reason why I went into hybrid builds.
Ice wiz definitely needs some rework and I'm looking forward to any changes.
 
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Sinjin

Jack Of All Trades
Platform
iOS
I’ve kinda just been lurking in this thread for a bit because I wanted to get some others input before I piped up and it looks like those that had something to say have had a chance, so here’s my $0.02.

Firstly, I don’t agree with the premise that Ice Wizards are ‘horribly broken’. Ice wizards can enjoy all the solo content the game has to offer. They’re viable. They‘re fun.

To my mind, the real problem with Ice Wizards is that they do not excel at end-game. In group/scaled content (namely 95 elders, event zones, and raids), they’re simply not better (or even as good as) any other dps option. I have screenshots of ‘pure’ holy priests (in an exclusively-dps role) that have strictly dominated Ice Wizards (with comparable gear/rebirths) in both elders and raids. The existing role of the Ice Wizard at end-game is dps, and they’re dominated by almost any other class performing the same role, even classes that are not nominally designed for that role.

Secondly, Ice wizards are not the ‘masters of crowd-control’. With one exception (sorry Water Shaman), every class has access to a stun. At least two other classes have access to multiple stuns (both single target and aoe). What ice wizards have that no other class has is access to both a single target and an aoe short-duration snare. That said, the feat cooldowns are longer than the effect, so (unlike at least 2 other classes) they’re not able to keep even a single target repeatedly snared (i.e., they can’t ‘snarelock’ a mob.) So... the one unique cc thing they do have, they don’t even do very well and snare is wholly useless at endgame (it lowers aoe dps and having stray adds enter the scrum late they end up missing the tank’s alpha aoe threat generation feats, etc.) Not only are snares useless, they’re actually detrimental at end-game.

I’m not even going to mention Crystalize as a form of CC. It’s not materially different than Distract or Rebuke and all three of these are wholly useless. By way of database query, if more than 1% of active players had one of these three necklace feats slotted, I’d eat my hat.

Many MMOs have successfully had crowd-control abilities and classes, and games that have those classes envisioned from the start tend to implement them reasonably well. This game isn’t built around kiting or crowd control and introducting them to ‘fix’ Ice Wizards is likely to result in some pretty imbalanced gameplay with very unpredictable results.

I’m at a loss to understand why a class with fairly high survivability (by virtue of high mitigation, a strong shield and a decent hot) would (or even should) excel at crowd control anyway. Traditionally, very low survivability is afforded to CC classes because their very purpose is to mitigate or rate-limit incoming dmg. Making Ice a ‘CC class’ (with all the various ways that will break end game content) just feels like its trying to find a role for the class instead of finding a novel way for them to excel at their existing role.

I’m also not a fan of ‘fixing’ the Ice Wizard class by adding more cc. CC isn’t useful, so having more of it is just adding more useless stuff to a class that is already marginalized for its role.

Lastly, I’m a fan of most of KAVE’s suggestions, except one. An ultimate that starts with ‘After casting 100’-anything is just wrong. The list of reasons why is fairly comprehensive, but check the test forums if you’d like to see the full list.
 
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