Antavious

Warrior
Characters
Antavious, suoivatna
Platform
  1. iOS
So here’s the deal with rift as it stands the Boxes award 5-15 M.E each so daily you get 50-150 M.E with realistically 1 extra small box (from pinbone) and 1 big box (weekly quest) a week.

The quests are gonna take a wile to do but are justified by the fact that they give exp so are a progression tool but the teleporter to different floors is a huge problem he costs 25 M.E. as it stands it takes 1.66-5 boxes to get that much M.E so in order to make back the cost you need to kill (and stay alive vs) on average 3.33 bosses after using it so if you rejoin later than boss 7 it’s too expensive and will cost you more than it gives same if you die more frequently than every 3.33 bosses. of course if you don’t die you don’t need it at all so that leaves us with this:-

either you need it but can’t afford to use it or you can afford to use it but don’t need it

so it’s almost completely useless it can only be used for people who are late to join and if you get disconnected (and only by those that can afford it). This isn’t the first example of something like this it reminds me of elder bane and guard (runes to help you beat elders which you get as a reward after you beat elders so same deal either don’t need or can’t get lol)

so my advice with progression is join, stay as long as you can focus on safety, complete the enchantment quest first (it might help you stay alive) and be very cautious about using the floor short cuts.

now on to the 1% chance at a toy reward because there are 11 toys total and the chance of each toy dropping is equal the more of these toys you get the worse the chance of getting a new toy by about 0.09% so getting all the toys might be an almost impossible task but keeps the content alive for an extremely long time so here is how many boxes on average you need for each toy:-

1st toy 100 boxes
2nd toy 110 more boxes, 210 total
3rd toy 122 more boxes, 332 total
4th toy 137 more boxes, 469 total
5th toy 157 more boxes, 626 total
6th toy 189 more boxes, 815 total
7th toy 218 more boxes, 1033 total
8th toy 271 more boxes, 1304 total
9th toy 358 more boxes, 1662 total
10th toy 527 more boxes, 2189 total
11th toy 1112 more boxes, 3301 total

so if you run every day for a year you might get enough luck to get them all ;) otherwise don’t expect too many but one or two should be easy. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing as it will mean we will all have a few each different from each other’s ones at least for a wile who knows but these boxes (just like ardent society and red darrig boxes) suffer from a form of diminished potential value the more you get from them and it’s worth baring that in mind.

honestly I think the teleporting npc shouldn’t cost M.E to use at all (maybe it should have a cool-down instead like 5 min) and it would be great if duplicates were not possible from the toy boxes (But this one i at least get as it extends the value of the content)
 
Royal Guardian
Characters
BashaDrake, Elmeti, Knytro
Platform
  1. Android
I'm not sure how the teleporter works, but it sounds like you need to spend the currency every time. Wouldn't it work better to have them as a permanent unlock? The first 100 permanently let's you port to the second boss, the next 100 let's you permanently teleport to the third boss, etc?
 

Antavious

Warrior
Characters
Antavious, suoivatna
Platform
  1. iOS
I'm not sure how the teleporter works, but it sounds like you need to spend the currency every time. Wouldn't it work better to have them as a permanent unlock? The first 100 permanently let's you port to the second boss, the next 100 let's you permanently teleport to the third boss, etc?
Exactly my point and currently costs more to use than is practical for those that need it, it also costs more to unlock the ability to get deeper in (which isn’t better than joining early it’s worse because there are fewer rewards left to gain in the run) the cost to unlock should cover the usage fee or at least you shouldn’t have to give up so much of your gains in order to use it. Maybe you should unlock it backwards boss 10 first then 9 and so on because there are less rewards to replace spent currency but that’s crazy right even though it logically makes perfect sense.
 

Antavious

Warrior
Characters
Antavious, suoivatna
Platform
  1. iOS
Next I want to look at pinbone‘s quest. A weekly quest that currently realisticly gives as a reward one tenth of the daily rewards and a little gold lol, best case this quest should be a capable teams ticket to only running rift once a week but it gives at best 1 days worth of rewards so we should really be looking at more big boxes 5 really to get to that point so gold result + daily + other weekly quest matches a week worth of running and at worst still match the other weekly quest so 1 big box, bronze 2, silver 3.

Now the gold cost issue, I like this but it seams redundant I think you should still lose your gold at a plain win at bronze take a little hit at silver break even and gold make profit but let’s adjust it based on a rough estimate of the gold worth of a box maybe lose some boxes to cover the cost.

(Remember this is all rough and theoretical) a toy from the crown store can range from 50-300 crowns and a fair/avarage crown to gold price on my server is say 35g so avarage toy 175x35=5250g sounds fair so each box gives a 10%-0.9% chance at a new toy based on how many you all ready have so let’s say 5% of 5250 so 262.5g for the odds now the M.E 50-150 so 100% of a small boxs cost on avarage so let’s increase the gold by a rough 10% so 288.75 so round it a little to make to 300 sounds fair due to risk. Ok easy so evening it out a bit the rewards should look like this

gold: 3 big boxes and 600g
silver: 2 big boxes and 300g
bronze: 1 big box and 300g
normal: 1 big box

now that’s a tough but fair reward structure.
 
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Roak

Squirrel
Platform
  1. PC
Concerning the teleporter cost, on US2 we've pretty given up the idea of using it after many reports of people losing ALL their effluxes just for using it once .

We've also given up on the Pinbone quest, it still is impossible to complete. Not enough time.
 

V

Mad Otter Games
Developer
Concerning the teleporter cost, on US2 we've pretty given up the idea of using it after many reports of people losing ALL their effluxes just for using it once .

Klymene Spellbinder has two operations which cost Mana Efflux:
  • Unlocking Floors
  • Teleporting to Floors
Teleporting to Floors will cost a flat 25 mana efflux per teleport.
Unlocking floors will cost a large chunk of mana efflux, scaling up based on the level of the floor.

I've gone through and verified each of the teleport operations and confirmed that they only take 25 mana efflux. If a player finds that they lost a big chunk of mana efflux while speaking to Klymene, they likely selected the dialogue option to unlock a new floor.
 

Roak

Squirrel
Platform
  1. PC
Unlocking floors will cost a large chunk of mana efflux, scaling up based on the level of the floor.

I guess that makes sense,but how much efflux does it cost exactly? Unlocking the first one apparently takes enough to make people cry ,lol.

Considering how hard those efflux are to get (and how hard it is to actually find enough people to do Rift) , couldnt we simply have all teleporters unlocked from the start? :(
 

Antavious

Warrior
Characters
Antavious, suoivatna
Platform
  1. iOS
Given more time to ponder the main problem with the teleporter is that the M.E gains dropped substantially during the last tweak. The normal boxes were worth 3-260 M.E but are now only worth 5-15 granted I don’t have the exact numbers to work out the likelihood of one of these top value 250 artefacts dropping but I oftern saw people reporting them, 2 some days I even got days like that too meaning 500+ M.E occasionally now we get 50-150 so yeah if your gonna cut M.E gains surly you need to cut prices too.

I think if the teleport option is 25 then M.E gain from one box needs to at least cover that otherwise like I said later bosses are just a flat out loss. By that logic to bring us back to where we were supposed to be a small box needs to give 25-50 M.E and the big one 250-500 M.E. alternatively all prices of tp, extra boxes, the unlimited half mana and even the quest hand ins need to be reassessed and rebalanced based on the massive loss of gains taking away artefacts did.
 

ArchLord

Arch Wizard
Characters
ArchMistress, Archlord
Platform
  1. PC
the teleport definitly need to be 0 cost, 25 each teleport is not worth my me , or simply aplly 25 cost after player completed a quest to defeat all bosses
 

Bratu

Legendary Hero
Characters
bratu
Platform
  1. Steam
For me its the gold.
Waiting too long to redo a rift where you'll only earn 100 gold seems a little wild to me. I would dare to say that more players think the same, if it were a daily event where we could meet and do it, I think it would encourage more teamwork, more activity in that area, more fun and above all, it would not be such an uninhabited area as it is currently.
They should buff the rewards.
 
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Lamorack

Great Adventurer
Platform
  1. iOS
To me it’s just an over elaborated ladder. I’d prefer something stripped of all the fluff that really is fairly contrived, including that debated here.

I would be more interested in a stripped down version capable of ascending difficulty options. If the mechanics could support it, perhaps handicapping toons to level down might be an interesting departure.

Maybe also make it available only on certain days or after a certain number have passed to prevent it being too heavily mined and thus allow decent rewards. Just pare down the fluff and focus on the challenge alone. At present I have no interest in it.
 

Antavious

Warrior
Characters
Antavious, suoivatna
Platform
  1. iOS
To me it’s just an over elaborated ladder. I’d prefer something stripped of all the fluff that really is fairly contrived, including that debated here.

I would be more interested in a stripped down version capable of ascending difficulty options. If the mechanics could support it, perhaps handicapping toons to level down might be an interesting departure.

Maybe also make it available only on certain days or after a certain number have passed to prevent it being too heavily mined and thus allow decent rewards. Just pare down the fluff and focus on the challenge alone. At present I have no interest in it.
Sorry you don’t clearly define some of what you mean but use words that don’t literally mean anything pls take the time to explain which things are over elaborated, what is fluff?, which debate your referring to (this is quite an old thread I started near when rift was first changed exactly 2 years today to talk about the reward structure) what’s your idea of a striped down version?.

for the second half just so you know rift is scaled to 75-95 so unless your talking about a reversal of the whole scaling process it’s already being done. same goes for only being runnable on certain days the repeatable quests have rather large cool-downs so you only get maximum rewards about once a week.

sorry to have to ask so many questions to full understand what you are trying to say.
 

Lamorack

Great Adventurer
Platform
  1. iOS
Last edited
Sorry you don’t clearly define some of what you mean but use words that don’t literally mean anything pls take the time to explain which things are over elaborated, what is fluff?, which debate your referring to (this is quite an old thread I started near when rift was first changed exactly 2 years today to talk about the reward structure) what’s your idea of a striped down version?.

for the second half just so you know rift is scaled to 75-95 so unless your talking about a reversal of the whole scaling process it’s already being done. same goes for only being runnable on certain days the repeatable quests have rather large cool-downs so you only get maximum rewards about once a week.

sorry to have to ask so many questions to full understand what you are trying to say.
Sorry, I was intending to make a deliberately big picture comment on what I believe is the major reason the rift continues to be a niche feature. Apparently ineffectively, at least for you. To my mind, making the rift more relevant starts at that level not minutiae.

I was not attempting to criticize cost or specifics because I believe the actual ladder is fine and the cost element is subsumed by my a hopefully stated belief that it’s a part of unnecessary window dressing.

To my mind the whole concept of the rift is hopelessly overblown. It’s a ladder dressed up as a semi-independent mini realm. It’s a baroque extravagance.

Thats not to say that the old rift, cast aside from the quest line, wasn’t ripe for revitalization or that the actual combat game play doesn’t have merit. I don’t miss the dizziness of the old rift spiral, but just pare this back to the core ladder and do away with the costs and currency and I think it would start to be more accessible and thus have more relevance/usage.
 

Antavious

Warrior
Characters
Antavious, suoivatna
Platform
  1. iOS
So the currency, quests, mini lobby are what you don’t like but you like the ladder type structure it’s self. That’s fair. The reasons behind it all was to put rift down as a high yielding exp zone to give those locked into there lvl ing grind at 75+ a little reprieve and it’s a good idea to ask the simple question “did it work/help with this?“ I think the answer depends on the server and those willing to participate despite the low yield of actual reward.

personally I’ve done everything in my power to allow players of any lvl to benefit from this content and encourage its use. But from what I hear EU1 with its regular runs are the exception not the rule.
 
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Yuriza

Jack Of All Trades
Characters
Yuriza, Gaia Xiao, Apollymi, Hari, Shaysisisisislia
Platform
  1. Android
Last edited
On Friday (us3) , we only have 3 a week, if we die,we ain't coming back for any reason what so ever lol
This is how unpopular rift public is on our server.
Love the combat and buff, but the reward are meh (also, haven't even bother with the teleporter mostly) Only enjoy it for the fun that tanks has some value here and the yummy exp from the weekly that helps with the lvl lock phase
P.S. Favorite Boss; The ice niethernal with the prowler. It's fun to be on boss duty or protect the wizard. (Kind of would like this feature/function added to Tempest, where we "defend" the tower on the shoreline)
 
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