Math Fish

Squirrel
Royal Guardian
Characters
Math Fish (Marksman), Shama Fisha (Water), Accursed Angelfish (Shadow), Logical Loach (Fire)
Platform
PC, Steam
I was debating where to put this or whether to do this at all, but I feel like the community and devs need to see this. Josh Strife Hayes, a strong MMO reviewer, just put up a review of Villagers and Heroes. The audience he has influence over is quite large; so whatever you feel about him, this is what people will hear about the game as it is what the player first encounters. I would like for us to discuss what this means to us now and what we would like to see change, if anything.

 

sirbabbo

Warrior
Platform
iOS
Oh thank you for the post! Interesting video, and as aspected it gives a beginners opportunity to see but unfortunately the Brits voice is influencing at most so people would only here his opinion. Well I’m sure we can make a comment but he has done it for other games the same format with some missing details lol.
 

Rachielle

Hunter
Platform
iOS
Last edited
Still in the middle of watching it, but this is the first thing I wanted to comment on, especially in the off chance he's reading this thread. It's not a pencil scratch, it's chalk on a chalkboard. Sheesh, millenials! But also, I happen to adore the sound and haven't gotten tired of it yet, after 1.5 years of playing. :)

Okay, finished. He has some very good points (mounts and bounties are just palette changes on the same skins) but an awful lot of nitpicking, too. It's interesting that while reviewing a MMO, he only commented on another player killing his bounties before he could get to them and didn't really comment about the community. But of course, he didn't play long enough to make any friends or get to a level where he had to collaborate. Which leads me to wanting to answer his question at the end, of why I am still playing this game: I stuck with it for a few months playing stubbornly solo because I actually kind of enjoyed the repetitive combat but mostly because I adored the chalkboard scratch and clanging bells of completing quests. But then I finally joined a guild and fell really and truly in love. It's the people who make a MMO more than the technical elegance.

Edited to add: At first I was annoyed that he seemed to think that the game was pay to win, but then I realized if he has that impression of the game at the beginning levels, it's very likely others do too. Maybe the Otters should make the free alternatives of crown-store items more apparent in the early stages.
 

Zaphyra

Master Villager
Characters
Retired
Platform
Android, PC
He only played the game for about 8hrs... just long enough to finish the Miscreant questline and do the introductory crafting quests. He didn't even notice when he hit a plenti node and has no idea how much fun gathering and crafting can be. He thought Motes could only be bought in the Crown shop. He never explored his Village or visited the COG station. He never mastered any recipes or tried mass-crafting, to create blue gear with stats to strengthen his character. I didn't see him do any gnogmenting... it looked like he never had more than 2 feats on his weapon. He never learned about accessories (rings, necklaces, trinkets, tokens). He didn't read about the subclasses and skills available in his Talent Trees. IMHO, his review was cursory at best and a hatchett job at worst... designed to get him YouTube views, from those who enjoy listening to him trash games he's barely played. 🤨

That said, he did raise some valid points... many game assets are simply different colors of the same thing. Personally, that doesn't bother me, because I really like the graphics in V&H and I LOVE all the different colored Bog Frogs (wish I could have them all as pets). I also enjoy the simplified gathering, crafting and combat system... because I want to relax and enjoy myself. 🙂👍

If he had played the game longer and gotten more involved in all the activities of being both a Villager and a Hero... then maybe he would have learned why so many of us have been playing V&H for years. 😊🍻😊
 

Halleebell

Squirrel
Characters
Hallee/Freyra
Platform
iOS, PC
He only played the game for about 8hrs... just long enough to finish the Miscreant questline and do the introductory crafting quests. He didn't even notice when he hit a plenti node and has no idea how much fun gathering and crafting can be. He thought Motes could only be bought in the Crown shop. He never explored his Village or visited the COG station. He never mastered any recipes or tried mass-crafting, to create blue gear with stats to strengthen his character. I didn't see him do any gnogmenting... it looked like he never had more than 2 feats on his weapon. He never learned about accessories (rings, necklaces, trinkets, tokens). He didn't read about the subclasses and skills available in his Talent Trees. IMHO, his review was cursory at best and a hatchett job at worst... designed to get him YouTube views, from those who enjoy listening to him trash games he's barely played. 🤨

That said, he did raise some valid points... many game assets are simply different colors of the same thing. Personally, that doesn't bother me, because I really like the graphics in V&H and I LOVE all the different colored Bog Frogs (wish I could have them all as pets). I also enjoy the simplified gathering, crafting and combat system... because I want to relax and enjoy myself. 🙂👍

If he had played the game longer and gotten more involved in all the activities of being both a Villager and a Hero... then maybe he would have learned why so many of us have been playing V&H for years. 😊🍻😊
Yea I noticed this too. Yea we all know there are issues and some things are lacking. Iv tried and played a few games where you hit gathering material once and it’s done and it’s very annoying. I like that you can just chill at a node. The pay to win stuff bothered me as well. Yes things you can buy are convenient depending on how you like to play games but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s pay to win. Every single one of my chars has swim speed but does that help me “win”, no. Just makes my game play more enjoyable. Only my main has a bought enchantment and bought gathering tools. I didn’t really need them to begin with but I bought them for convenience. The color thing with outfits/mounts at times bothers me. But I also understand the limits the devs have so I don’t like to complain about it. I’ll buy the color I like and move on. Idk maybe I’m not big on watching people bash things just to bash them. But to each their own though. I wouldn’t go out of my way to watch someone just make bad game reviews.
 

Xhukari

Citizen
Characters
Jalac, Jascir, Jagzun, Jakzar, Jawic
Platform
Android
As someone who has given this game a fairshake (and poured a fair sum of money into this game), and subscribed to Josh Strife Hayes for quite some time, I figured I'd return to the forums to check out the opinions and thoughts from the community, and to possibly clear some things up.

He definitely got some things wrong, that's for sure. Motes aren't cash store exclusive, we know that. But as a new player, he doesn't. That's just how it came across on first impression. Which also is what his 'Worst MMO Ever?' series is; first impressions. They aren't reviews. The name itself is a bit clickbaity, as the the games featured within aren't necessarily bad games (as given by the previous game in the series he played; Guild Wars 1).

He still plays GW1 after doing his video, he even played through the entire story of a laggy, glitchy broken mess of an MMO, and a made a YouTube series cataloguing that about the game (Otherlands). Just because he found something unique and redeeming in that game. If anything, I hope his video helps to address potential issues a new player will encounter when starting V&H, especially for PC players, given the sheer mountain of competition in that market.

All the best. :)
 
Royal Guardian
Characters
William Hououin
Platform
iOS, PC
As someone who has given this game a fairshake (and poured a fair sum of money into this game), and subscribed to Josh Strife Hayes for quite some time, I figured I'd return to the forums to check out the opinions and thoughts from the community, and to possibly clear some things up.

He definitely got some things wrong, that's for sure. Motes aren't cash store exclusive, we know that. But as a new player, he doesn't. That's just how it came across on first impression. Which also is what his 'Worst MMO Ever?' series is; first impressions. They aren't reviews. The name itself is a bit clickbaity, as the the games featured within aren't necessarily bad games (as given by the previous game in the series he played; Guild Wars 1).

He still plays GW1 after doing his video, he even played through the entire story of a laggy, glitchy broken mess of an MMO, and a made a YouTube series cataloguing that about the game (Otherlands). Just because he found something unique and redeeming in that game. If anything, I hope his video helps to address potential issues a new player will encounter when starting V&H, especially for PC players, given the sheer mountain of competition in that market.

All the best. :)
Agreed

Btw, Otherlands coverage was absolutely fantastic, that unknown mmo got some spectacular graphical style !
 
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IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
If anything, I hope his video helps to address potential issues a new player will encounter when starting V&H, especially for PC players, given the sheer mountain of competition in that market.
I do think this assessment will help the devs who have made, remade, tweaked and redesigned the tutorial again and again. Fresh perspective from outside helps I think.
 

Zaphyra

Master Villager
Characters
Retired
Platform
Android, PC
As someone who has given this game a fairshake (and poured a fair sum of money into this game), and subscribed to Josh Strife Hayes for quite some time, I figured I'd return to the forums to check out the opinions and thoughts from the community, and to possibly clear some things up.

He definitely got some things wrong, that's for sure. Motes aren't cash store exclusive, we know that. But as a new player, he doesn't. That's just how it came across on first impression. Which also is what his 'Worst MMO Ever?' series is; first impressions. They aren't reviews. The name itself is a bit clickbaity, as the the games featured within aren't necessarily bad games (as given by the previous game in the series he played; Guild Wars 1).

He still plays GW1 after doing his video, he even played through the entire story of a laggy, glitchy broken mess of an MMO, and a made a YouTube series cataloguing that about the game (Otherlands). Just because he found something unique and redeeming in that game. If anything, I hope his video helps to address potential issues a new player will encounter when starting V&H, especially for PC players, given the sheer mountain of competition in that market.

All the best. :)
Constructive criticism can be very helpful and I hope our Devs will find ways to improve our tutorials, to help new players better understand all aspects of the game. I think they might start by making the gathering, crafting and gnogmenting quests part of the main quest line, instead of side quests that new players might skip. 🤔

However, it's a real shame that Josh chose to post a video about V&H, calling it possibly one of the worst MMOs... without fully understanding the game. V&H is NOT a serious, epic MMO... it's a fun, lighthearted adventure... with sometimes silly quests and lame jokes... colorful, cartoony graphics... relaxing activities and landscapes... as well as challenging content and seasonal Event Zones. Our Devs are always open to new ideas and regularly interact with their players... soliciting feedback and organizing events... rewarding players for helping others... and working to create a vibrant, family-friendly community, that you'll have a hard time finding in other games. 👩‍🌾🤝🦸‍♂️

I just wish Josh had played long enough, to learn more about our game... before posting his clickbait review, that might discourage others from giving V&H a try. 😕
 

dustbunny

Squirrel
Platform
iOS, PC
As he stated in the comment section of the youtube video, he does this for entertainment purposes only. So, in reality, that means when he does these videos he makes things up or comments on things he really knows nothing about just to entertain people, not inform them about the game. Kinda like trying a new flavor of soda by licking the bottle.
 

Anthem

Bog Frog
Platform
PC
The tutorial zone has changed a lot. I was surprised to see that it takes 8 hours to finish it. For me, in a new game, the tutorial should take no more than 30 minutes to complete. If it lasts much longer It is not a game I want to start. I don't mind that not all is fully explained I am just looking for an overview in that first 30 minutes.
 

Rachielle

Hunter
Platform
iOS
That's interesting because I always felt that the tutorial is just the little bit before you get delivered to Summer's Hollow. Sure you're introduced to crafting and gathering in the SH area, and that's sort of tutorialish.... I guess it could be argued either way!

I agree about this showing what a completely new player's first impression might be, and there are maybe some things that can be done to improve it. I won't be so bold as to propose anything, though. Oh, maybe make fishing more memorable since it's literally the first thing the game has you do and yet it's the #1 FAQ! LOL!
 

Zaphyra

Master Villager
Characters
Retired
Platform
Android, PC
The tutorial zone has changed a lot. I was surprised to see that it takes 8 hours to finish it. For me, in a new game, the tutorial should take no more than 30 minutes to complete. If it lasts much longer It is not a game I want to start. I don't mind that not all is fully explained I am just looking for an overview in that first 30 minutes.
The 8 hours was for him to finish the Miscreant quest line, without a mount... the actual tutorial is probably less than 30 mins. 🙂
 

Ekimie

Hunter
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
The 8 hours was for him to finish the Miscreant quest line, without a mount... the actual tutorial is probably less than 30 mins. 🙂
I think there is some disagreement over what a tutorial is. I think tutorial, you can consider what used to be Gilly tunnel and what is now Elden forest. How to move, how to hack-n-slash. Everything after that up to ardent city is introductory zones, but other people still put that under tutorial. Ofcourse you do still learn the ropes on a few things, like gathering and crafting, but the super basics you finish up in under ten minutes
 

Farmer Ahab

Citizen
Platform
PC
Last edited
I think his review makes a lot of good points, even if some of them are misinformed.

The combat is bland. Attacks don't feel impactful, the fights are boring and uninspired, every enemy is almost exactly the same thing. Bonk them on the head till you or they die. Most of my hesitation about continuing to play VIllagers and Heroes comes from this aspect. Why should I craft cool weapons and armor if I know the fights they'll be used will bore me to tears? I dread having to do the next story quest—it'll just be traversing more giant maps, killing bounties, and spam-clicking through dialogue.

And don't get me started on the current event map. Circling the map for hours trying to complete my bounties is absolutely horrible. Why? Why are the bounty respawn timers so long? When I see other players on the map, rather than feel joy for having their company, I am annoyed that they are killing my bounties and that I'll have to stand there, waiting for them to respawn.

However, Villager and Heroes' problems reach far beyond just the combat. The gardening and animal husbandry are mind-numbing chores you should be doing every 2-4 hours. There is no depth. There is no need for planning. You just do the thing, and then come back 2 hours later to do it on all of your alts (because one account will never produce enough crops or level enough animals to sustain itself and the variety of consumables it needs). To worsen matters, almost every product in gardening is one-note. You never unlock new types of potions, just slightly better versions. It's unexciting. Formulaic.

The one thing I do enjoy about this game is the gathering and crafting. Gnogmenting runes on armor is pretty fun, as is having skills attached to gear. However, though I started playing 10 days ago, that won't hold me long. I frequently find myself bored while grinding combat. I often wonder if it's time to uninstall, move on to a game that actually feels worth the grind, and I think that day will come soon. I love crafting, but that and the 100 dollars I spent isn't enough sunk cost to keep me here. On the topic of micro-transactions, the lack of inventory to hold all the intermediate materials you gather and craft is just a middle finger to even the fattest whale. I can't enjoy gathering when I know I can't store most of the loot for future use, but I'd feel like an abosolute tool if I spent 200 dollars to unlock inventory space. Inventory space. Two hundred dollars (maybe more!) worth of vaults are possible, yet you're only given one page. Really, that's your ace in the hole to keep new players? No sane person will spend 3 years logging in daily to unlock them for free.

I apologize if this post was harsh. Hopefully, the devs listen to the feedback and make improvements. This game has lots of potential, but there is a lot of work to be done before it gets there.

P.S. This game has the best customer service I've seen so far, so that's a big plus from my perspective.

Edit: After reading the earlier posts on this thread, and learning that the developers have redone the tutorial many times, I do have to say I respect the hustle of constantly improving their craft. I don't know how useful the following suggestions will be, but I hope the developers give them some consideration.

Problem 1: All fights feel the same.
The issue here is the tedium, the repetitive combat action where you bonk the enemy and they bonk you, only the numbers increasing as you reach higher level zones. There need to be some 'oh shit' moments. There need to be times where you use a dodge or block skill instead of piling on more dps. I can think of many ways to implement this change, but the easiest one to give all mobs an array of skills they can employ in combat.
For example, spider mobs will be given 8 skills. The higher their zone, the more (or different) skills the spiders will have access to. So, in the first zone, a spider might only have the web root that they currently have. In the next zone, they gain an additional aoe poison ability that the player might dodge with a well-timed backflip counter ability to deal bonus damage.
See? Suddenly, you have player interaction instead of just spamming dps abilities. This is mastery. It is fun. The player has to feel like they're challenged, like they have to react, and as they learn and get better at fighting, their enjoyment goes up too. This feeds back into the crafting-gathering loop cause suddenly players want to unlock armors with cool skills for new combat strategies instead of simply upping their numbers to out-bonk a npc.

Problem 2: The gardening and animal ranching.
There is so much missed potential here. 2 skills are limited to 5x5 plots of land. There is no fun in the skills themselves, but rather the anticipation of a usable product after months of grinding. And that's fine... for a few days before the player dreads having to do it again and quits the game.
How can you improve this? There are many ways. One is to introduce a large barn for animal breeding. For example, the player might accrue many pigs for breeding, hoping that two tier one pigs mate to produce a tier 2 pig. Village facilities, husbandry levels, and how well taken care of the animals are can be used to influence the rate that a new-born pig will be a tier above his parents. Then the player has to decide whether to keep the tier 2 pig for further breeding purposes or slaughter it for meat.
Of course, there are problems with this. End game animal tiers comes too soon. This can be fixed by limiting the maximum tier produced by the player's husbandry level, or simply by limiting how many high-level animals a low-level player might have at once. There is a learning curve here—and it is fun.
A similar solution can be implemented for hybrid crops. No more repetitive seed buying and planting. Let there be player interaction and decision-making involved! Hell, allow players to breed animals and plants for certain properties like when crafting armor. How cool would it be to breed a verda sprout with a 20% supply chance and 0% supply increase rate? Or blueberries that prioritize mana regen over instant mana recovery? Maybe even add runes by nurturing produce and animals with a specific gatherable item! I'll say it again—so much potential here.

Problem 3: Bounties.
Really, just make them respawn faster. Especially on event maps. Unless the developers planned to turn the tedious exercise of circumnavigating the map into a time-sink, just make there enough bounties for everyone. This one is just common sense.

Alright, I probably wrote too much as is. You get my point. A little bit of depth will go a long way for this game.
 

Ambigatos Lamentare

Great Adventurer
Characters
Ambigatos Lamentare
Platform
iOS, Android
I think his review makes a lot of good points, even if some of them are misinformed.

The combat is bland. Attacks don't feel impactful, the fights are boring and uninspired, every enemy is almost exactly the same thing. Bonk them on the head till you or they die. Most of my hesitation about continuing to play VIllagers and Heroes comes from this aspect.

[...]

Problem 1: All fights feel the same.
The issue here is the tedium, the repetitive combat action where you bonk the enemy and they bonk you, only the numbers increasing as you reach higher level zones. There need to be some 'oh shit' moments. There need to be times where you use a dodge or block skill instead of piling on more dps. I can think of many ways to implement this change, but the easiest one to give all mobs an array of skills they can employ in combat.
For example, spider mobs will be given 8 skills. The higher their zone, the more (or different) skills the spiders will have access to. So, in the first zone, a spider might only have the web root that they currently have. In the next zone, they gain an additional aoe poison ability that the player might dodge with a well-timed backflip counter ability to deal bonus damage.
See? Suddenly, you have player interaction instead of just spamming dps abilities. This is mastery. It is fun. The player has to feel like they're challenged, like they have to react, and as they learn and get better at fighting, their enjoyment goes up too. This feeds back into the crafting-gathering loop cause suddenly players want to unlock armors with cool skills for new combat strategies instead of simply upping their numbers to out-bonk a npc.
I can understand this feeling. However, i consider devs have already done great improvements in combat mechanics.
Raids bosses, or the new pyramids ladder bounties, for exemple, have AoE skills, and require players to react, move to dodge, and not only stand and click.
It seems (personal feeling) that a part of the devs team (Sean Ryan?) are in charge to enhance the combat aspect, and i really appreciate this.
 
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Giruv

Merchant
Royal Guardian
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
I seems to agree with everything he mentioned beside the nitpick, some of the conclusion he makes is wrong, but the though process behind it still hit the mark. I'll just address his main point that really ring with me. Not his exact phrasing, but here are the point.

"Villagers & Heroes feels like the most average MMO out there"
I think this kind of an issue that I've felt for a long time. Even tho there are no glaring issue with the game, there are also no game feature that truly shine. This issue hit me a lot when I try to invite my friend to the game or the last time the Otter want to make an advertisement for the game, even the Otter feel like they don't know what feature of their game is great or feature they're proud of. On the post that ask player opinion most people answer about the community, but community is not a game feature, it make the game much better, but it isn't a game feature, like if you play at non active hours, the game will return to it's not so good state. The second most popular answer is no PvP, but again the non existent of a feature, is not a feature, like why don't anyone say the game has good PvE, or good crafting, etc? Because non of them is truly good.

"The Developers feel like they don't have passion for the game" & "A lot of things is there, just for the sake of being there"
I think the Otter is of the most passionate Developer out there, but they does feel like they lack the vision and focus on what they want to do and they feel like they lack the knowledge, the feel to make things feel good. Stuff added in the game, feel like they're added into the game just for the sake of being there. Those things feel like just an experiment they're doing, not a content they enjoy and want to make. For example the recent addition of Pyramid, what is the purpose of it? Is it supposed to be for group or solo, is it supposed to be easy or hard, what is the target level of the player? Similar thing can be seen on raid and many other stuff because they don't have clear goal from the start player, especially tester always confused on how to give the correct feedback, and they got into vicious cycle of continuously rebalancing the fight, class, etc. Just a simple clear intent, like the empowered ladder go a long way. When it is clear it is supposed to be hard extra content, the player can understand when they failed, and decide if they want to take up the challenge or just forget it. There are some players that fail and keep trying for more than a month until they manage to do it, because they know it is hard and is a challenge they want to overcome, it is so fulfilling to see when that happen.

They know telegraphed attack is good, they know attack that make the player move is good, but they don't know how to make it feel good. They know gathering is good, crafting is good, but don't know how to make it feel good and different, you can technically make all the gathering and crafting skill into one skill and no one will notice a different. They know good mmo have a lot of mob out in the world, but in V&H if you remove the trash mob or reduce the amount significantly, the game might actually become better, because they almost serve no purpose, but as hindrances. I can give a lot more example, but in short they feel like they know the recipe of a great game, but don't know how to make the ingredients compliment each other or how to serve it.
 
Royal Guardian
Characters
William Hououin
Platform
iOS, PC
Last edited
Here’s my video reaction to Josh review. It’s starts very meh, as I search for my words (haven’t spoken in English for quite some time) but I think it ends up being interesting, and I hope, comforting for the people that needs it.

Comment with your own experiences in the comment section of the video please, so if new players stumble upon this, they’ll have a better understanding of what to look forward to. Anyway, here it is

 
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