Klaeklae

Bog Frog
Platform
Android
Oh a 2-fer!

Great, so now that you are both complaining at me and not the game (positive change), what are your actual suggestions for balancing your particular classes against the current raid set up?

-klaeklae
 

Ildranach

Squirrel
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
First, I am 'complaining at you' because you chose to take issue with me airing my grievances towards raid balance. Your posts were extremely condescending and dismissive, and disregarding of others' experiences, while having none of your own in that class. You don't even address it when you reply, just complain that you're being complained at. If you didn't intend to come across as completely disrespectful and arrogant, then perhaps you should watch your tone and do your research. I really do not appreciate players who don't play the class commenting on players who do, saying they're 'not up to the challenge' as if they're bad players, when they haven't experienced or faced it themselves. That's all.

As for suggestions:
For balancing Palace, I'd like to suggest Reflect be changed so it functions more like a damage-reflecting Lightning Shield when it is re-introduced, as I've already suggested here, perhaps with an obvious telegraph like when he sacrifices the guests. The numbers for uptime, cooldown, and refresh can vary and will need some tweaking to fit, and DoT applied while Reflect isn't active should not have ticks reflected once it reactivates.
This way, classes without much sustain can choose to switch off Prince and focus on healing themselves when reflect is enabled, and classes with sustain can either dps through with their superior sustain or choose to switch off and not further damage themselves until the shield wears off. This creates more meaningful counterplay than having Reflect on all the time, and prevents cases where players kill themselves with their own damage. Lag should also be taken into account, but I don't have any concrete solution for that yet.
Further, solo raids could be scaled per class/subclass: the rewards (once they are no longer bugged and granting the opposite subclass) seem to indicate there is a way to tell which class is initiating the raid. The damage numbers and health numbers could be scaled for each class's expected dps and sustain levels, which would smooth out the power differences between classes in solo. For example, Melee classes that are high def, high sustain, low damage could have mob health be scaled lower accordingly, and classes that are middling dps high sustain could face more damage and middling health, as a rough suggestion.
I'm of the opinion that raids should encourage and reward clever play, not grind, not consumable spam. Every puzzle that exists as a game mechanic must have an equally clever solution.
Being forced to spam Full Health into Reflect ain't it.
 

Halleebell

Squirrel
Characters
Hallee/Freyra
Platform
iOS, PC
Oh a 2-fer!

Great, so now that you are both complaining at me and not the game (positive change), what are your actual suggestions for balancing your particular classes against the current raid set up?

-klaeklae
Man you just keep making assumptions. In what way am I complaining? I think I asked you questions. You didn’t answer them. Was it because I said I don’t think I should be using 10+ heals in raids(not including higher lvl raids)? Or was it because I said you play a class that’s better suited to lvl in raids.? How is giving our class experience not trying to create change in a positive way? So devs and players alike can see problems that might need adjusting. Have we not given ideas within this thread? Can you actually give ideas to make them more balanced? Or is it simply cause you don’t see a problem it means there is none? Lol. Iv stated this before but I’ll state it again I’m not game savy I can see a problem but can not fix it when it comes to these things. I can give ideas. But I guess I should just remain silent so it doesn’t seem like I’m “complaining” about issues I see. You know to make you happy 😊
 
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Rubyn

Arch Wizard
Characters
Rubyn
Platform
Android, PC
If adding hard cap happens I keep in mind change in stats. My armor/mr/vitality for raid build are above cap, into diminishing returns (if cap stays same as in old tooltips).
That's troubling, since I have problems even like that.
Armor/mr around 55% means little at lv 36 raid, how should I go with 50% in future?
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Please remember to keep all posts civil and constructive. All should be comments about posts and not personal comments or personal attacks about or towards another member.
Thank you
 

Ildranach

Squirrel
Platform
Android, PC
Please remember to keep all posts civil and constructive. All should be comments about posts and not personal comments or personal attacks about or towards another member.
Thank you
So... People are allowed to snark and insult and imply people are bad players and you say nothing, and when people start defending themselves you come in with the warning?

I'm so done with this place.
 

Ekimie

Hunter
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
So... People are allowed to snark and insult and imply people are bad players and you say nothing, and when people start defending themselves you come in with the warning?

I'm so done with this place.
I think its more of a general warning, not aimed at a specific person. equally at you and the other posters in this thread.
 

Klaeklae

Bog Frog
Platform
Android
First, I am 'complaining at you' because you chose to take issue with me airing my grievances towards raid balance. Your posts were extremely condescending and dismissive, and disregarding of others' experiences, while having none of your own in that class. You don't even address it when you reply, just complain that you're being complained at. If you didn't intend to come across as completely disrespectful and arrogant, then perhaps you should watch your tone and do your research. I really do not appreciate players who don't play the class commenting on players who do, saying they're 'not up to the challenge' as if they're bad players, when they haven't experienced or faced it themselves. That's all.

As for suggestions:
For balancing Palace, I'd like to suggest Reflect be changed so it functions more like a damage-reflecting Lightning Shield when it is re-introduced, as I've already suggested here, perhaps with an obvious telegraph like when he sacrifices the guests. The numbers for uptime, cooldown, and refresh can vary and will need some tweaking to fit, and DoT applied while Reflect isn't active should not have ticks reflected once it reactivates.
This way, classes without much sustain can choose to switch off Prince and focus on healing themselves when reflect is enabled, and classes with sustain can either dps through with their superior sustain or choose to switch off and not further damage themselves until the shield wears off. This creates more meaningful counterplay than having Reflect on all the time, and prevents cases where players kill themselves with their own damage. Lag should also be taken into account, but I don't have any concrete solution for that yet.
Further, solo raids could be scaled per class/subclass: the rewards (once they are no longer bugged and granting the opposite subclass) seem to indicate there is a way to tell which class is initiating the raid. The damage numbers and health numbers could be scaled for each class's expected dps and sustain levels, which would smooth out the power differences between classes in solo. For example, Melee classes that are high def, high sustain, low damage could have mob health be scaled lower accordingly, and classes that are middling dps high sustain could face more damage and middling health, as a rough suggestion.
I'm of the opinion that raids should encourage and reward clever play, not grind, not consumable spam. Every puzzle that exists as a game mechanic must have an equally clever solution.
Being forced to spam Full Health into Reflect ain't it.
Well to be fair, you didn't take my opinions (coming from the opposite direction) seriously either... as an experienced player in the class I play. At my level, with the class and build i play, I think Prince is an acceptable challenge as-is and it is something I and some others enjoy.

But to each their own.

Your ideas.. They are all good ideas actually.. wrapped around bringing overall raid difficulty down. But that doesn't really address class balance within raids (or prince). Classes that struggle will have an easier run, while classes that don't struggle as much will have an even easier run.

I think the game would be more enriching for all classes if it was the classes that were looked at in relation to the raids.. even if its on a raid by raid basis. Maybe class specific relics with unique skills are unlocked as levels progress (to help fire wizards with sustain, for example).

Thats why the question I asked revolved around what could be done with the class.. and not the raid.

It also would be interesting to know at what raid level individual classes start to struggle and base rewards on a per class basis, but I could see instances where that could just be abused.

There is also the possibility that prince was designed with a weakness or set strategy to reliably beat him, and no one has discovered it.

Maybe Roak is on to something with gently swinging at him.

This wouldn't be the first MMO that has boss mobs with tricky strategies that took the playerbase some time to figure out.

And then again, maybe they gave Prince a masochistic personality for a reason.

-Klaeklae
 
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ripcord

Wizard
Characters
ripcord
Platform
iOS
Well to be fair, you didn't take my opinions (coming from the opposite direction) seriously either... as an experienced player in the class I play. At my level, with the class and build i play, I think Prince is an acceptable challenge as-is and it is something I and some others enjoy.

But to each their own.

Your ideas.. They are all good ideas actually.. wrapped around bringing overall raid difficulty down. But that doesn't really address class balance within raids (or prince). Classes that struggle will have an easier run, while classes that don't struggle as much will have an even easier run.

I think the game would be more enriching for all classes if it was the classes that were looked at in relation to the raids.. even if its on a raid by raid basis. Maybe class specific relics with unique skills are unlocked as levels progress (to help fire wizards with sustain, for example).

Thats why the question I asked revolved around what could be done with the class.. and not the raid.

It also would be interesting to know at what raid level individual classes start to struggle and base rewards on a per class basis, but I could see instances where that could just be abused.

There is also the possibility that prince was designed with a weakness or set strategy to reliably beat him, and no one has discovered it.

Maybe Roak is on to something with gently swinging at him.

This wouldn't be the first MMO that has boss mobs with tricky strategies that took the playerbase some time to figure out.

And then again, maybe they gave Prince a masochistic personality for a reason.

-Klaeklae
I understand your points Klae and definitely feel that for ice wizard there are difficult raids and there are raids I can do efficiently and I’ve heard from tanks that the opposite raids give them trouble. For example I have no issues with woods and consider it to be my best raid.

The difficulty in palace for me is that I can’t heal fast enough to compensate for Prince’s damage. I could respec my toon, but I don’t need to for any other raids and 50g just to run a palace by making my ice wiz more tanky seems steep. I DID do this during season one but I had the free respecs from Oasis.

I’m not saying the affix needs to be removed from Prince, but just like Ravelle’s shadow blast, it makes the fight unreasonably resource heavy for some classes. I think all the classes are well balanced for PvE (within 10% or so), and each raid pushes on players in different ways. It’s just that each class has a different strength/weakness (some more pronounced than others) and some classes lose badly in the Bee Bog Brute game of raids. I don’t know what the right answer is. For me, it’s run the hard raids for my class with a team of 3 or 6. Maybe that’s ok for up to 35 but I’m not sure I can manage that until 50.
 
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Rubyn

Arch Wizard
Characters
Rubyn
Platform
Android, PC
You can go slowly with prince, lower dmg feats, I don't mind strategy like that which makes you do opposite from what's expected.
Untill you reach level where timer runs out like that. I kill him 7-9 min with full fire dps for him to die (ignoring minions), so no room for any break or strategy.
 

Primum Auxilium

Grand Priest
Characters
Errapel
Platform
Android, PC
Let's stop fight and focus on devs what they're doing cuz obviously are not doing 'good', no? You cannot put something go live if not tested properly which is case here. It seems how good old three way of how to make worse work here as well and it goes this way : 1 - devs implements big changes
2 - lots of wine and not enough cheese to go with
3 - devs has achieved another big mess.
Players adapt and yet, here we still are. So my suggestion will be: play the game. 🤦‍♂️there is a million things to do besides raid... Forcing lv 35 solo is OK but 50 just to brag as devs said tells a lot how serious is the whole concept. 🤦‍♂️Anyway....
 

Zlin

Priest
Characters
Knave
Platform
Android, PC
I don't know any of the technical and I'm not sure what information would help but I thought I would share my experience at solo raids. Maybe there is some useful information/impressions in it;

At this point, I'm a level 31 holy priest mostly rare about level items.

Last night I tried my first ever raid(s);
1. solo challenge 1 rockery (ofc), 110 Ducets!
2.solo level 1 rockery; no Ducets... bummer, "why am I doing this?" (did get an uncommon relic)
Found out about the mounts you can buy with Ducets (spectral forged horse), "Now I want the pony!"
Asked and learned about Ducets; 100/week and 10/day per zone. So now I know I need to beat rockery on level 10 before I can open the next one.
3. solo level 2 rockery; slightly slower time but no problem, no Ducets, "Bummer but we forge ahead."
4. solo level 3 rockery; burned through tons of pots and died twice but finally won. "Okay, I'm done with this."

And that's where stopped, if I had kept going I would just be out of pots and dead several times, I have two attacks and a lot of heals, mana pots and full heals. I simply can't keep up with the raid on solo.

I'm sure there are better optimizations for my character and gear. But if I REALLY want that pony, I can just buy Ducets in the store apparently. Otherwise, I have to level a lot, which is fine until my rb at 45. Another criticism I could see is that I need to grind out raids to raise dungeneering skill. Which there may be a point where the skill level offsets the raid challenge level like a ratio 2:1. I do not have the time or inclination to figure it out.

My conclusion:
Raids at this point are not a productive use of my time and resources. They more of an end-game thing. It did make me a better player as I had to adapt to the incredibly hostile environment and I'm better for it, but I would not say it was fun past level 2.

I get this is new and I will try it again at a later time given more combat levels and/or system revisions. Thanks for letting me share and hopes this helps. I didn't read through the whole thread just a lamb talking to the lions :D.
 
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IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
So... People are allowed to snark and insult and imply people are bad players and you say nothing, and when people start defending themselves you come in with the warning?

I'm so done with this place.
Specific warnings to a player will generally be done in private messages. My post was indeed a general message to all players posting and done as a reminder of what Mad Otter expects of its members.
My post was not aimed at you specifically!
 
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KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
Spoke with a level 95 fire wizard who hit Platinum on US3, and with her permission I'm posting this screenshot.

It's important to not only look at how many players hit Platinum, but at the cost associated with reaching that point. For many, it is simply impossible due to the resource requirements:
1611688921634.png
 

Halleebell

Squirrel
Characters
Hallee/Freyra
Platform
iOS, PC
Spoke with a level 95 fire wizard who hit Platinum on US3, and with her permission I'm posting this screenshot.

It's important to not only look at how many players hit Platinum, but at the cost associated with reaching that point. For many, it is simply impossible due to the resource requirements:
View attachment 10809
I’m just refusing to spend that many resources.period. I got to silver and said enough was enough. Props to those who make it all the way but for me personally I’d rather not spend every resource I have on one season of raids. I really want the mount but not enough to justify spending that much time energy and resources to get there.
 
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