Klaeklae
Bog Frog
Platform
- Android
I still maintain raids (at least 20+) are more end level /well geared content.
Maybe it's the issue is really individual class balance within those raids. The classes are not balanced between each other (as is normal for a PVE game), so it logically stems that there will be a power variance in raid level ability. Maybe an easy band-aid solution to that is adjust the tier levels in a class specific way for solo play, but keep group tiers where they are at... I don't know.
I dont play a fire wiz, so I can't comment about them or help too much. I can see where sustain issues would come into play. But if you build a raid fire wiz like you would build it for 95 elders, you're gonna have a bad time.
I do play a shaman. And yes, its easier for us.. But even still, there is no one size/ fits all build for optimum play in every raid + 95s. Without the right rune and talent revamp (read: not just a tweak), raids can get difficult going into the 20s. Getting into the 30s can require some additional strategy with how to play the environment in specific raids due to time constraints. Some preparation can be required here... they aren't all a walk in the park.
Also keep in mind.. this is still beta-ish. If I were going to adjust raid tiers, especially on a class basis, I'd want some good data with which to do so, and I'd shoot high to start.
Since we are on the fire wiz topic, I'd love to know what the highest solo raid numbers are for fire wizards specifically.. what their specs were.. talents, level, rebirth, gear, build, etc.
I think all classes should at least have the capacity to hit gold in solo play (without darrig potions). And maybe this is already the case but we haven't figured it out yet for some classes (and maybe not). But I think it should be challenging to do so, which naturally means some players won't have the tenacity to get there.
-klaeklae
Klaeklae
Bog Frog
Platform
- Android
Klaeklae
Bog Frog
Platform
- Android
Just fyi it is possible to pull Gregory solo, kill him, and bypass his 2 guards entirely.
-klaeklae
Rubyn
Arch Wizard
Characters
Rubyn
Platform
- Android
- PC
Atm I'm lv 35 raid with fire wiz on EU, probably more and higher exists on other servers.
Obviously you can't run same build in raid as in elders 95, it's defensive build. Fire wiz has problem because it heals only while actively attacking, so you're easily killed from reflected dmg. You can avoid it in lower lvl by taking pause (and hope prince and minions won't kill you) but at lvls 30+ timer doesn't allow any break, so full heal pot is necessary (a lot of pots). Heal trinkets don't help.
Strategy for doing raid within timer is "kill as fast as you can", so you need to be top dps, top heal, bit unrealistic that all classes can perform it.
Gregory was mentioned before, he is somehow too hard for normal bounty, definitely not like other there.
Ildranach
Squirrel
Platform
- Android
- PC
This is exactly the problem. Dps classes, as previously stated in the thread, have a very hard time as they have poor built-in sustain, high damage, and poor damage-soaking abilities.
Fire Wiz sustain is based off dealing damage.
Hunters rely on either a bow rune, a small heal over time talent, or a proc-based shield. Otherwise CC is king.
At the levels where the reflect would be put back in (I'm not even talking about the earlier levels here) the damage potential from the mobs alone already outpace the sustain potential. Add in the higher damage required to kill and the higher damage you would be receiving, I am very doubtful that players will survive - and - make it within the timer.
Roak
Squirrel
Platform
- PC
Last edited
Devs said that the ''Big'' reward ,the one that worth the most,is Gold.Platinum is for the hardcore.
Also,about discutions people had about raids and mana pots,i did ZERO rebirths.
That sure is something i was complaining about in first season.But i think the current system is almost alright,we just need more xp.
Not for my zero-rebirth buttocks
It's getting to him that's hard for me.Klaeklae
Bog Frog
Platform
- Android
Higher level raids should be a challenge. More data is likely needed though in order to make factual decisions. Crafty players surprise sometimes, and changing things based in a "doubt" would be an undoubtedly dubious decision.
One could fabricate an argument that devs made high level raids require full hp pots to complete, but then also made full HP gingerbreads available for a lowly 5 EZ units. So, if someone really wanted to grind raid rewards, they have a way (in game) to acquire full hp items and do so.
But obviously, I don't know if that was the case... Just dreaming up other ways to skin a raid.
-klaeklae
Ildranach
Squirrel
Platform
- Android
- PC
Please see Rubyn's experience posted above as a fire wiz at level 35 raids.
EZ is not available 24/7. EZ items disappear after EZ is gone. You cannot balance raid content based off of content that isn't permanent.
Plus, full health and rezzes are premium items: there is absolutely an argument for them (and raids requiring such items) to be pay-to-win.
Primum Auxilium
Grand Priest
Characters
Errapel
Platform
- Android
- PC
Halleebell
Squirrel
Characters
Hallee/Freyra
Platform
- iOS
- PC
Yea I can understand needing a few here and there in higher raid lvls maybe even more then a few heading towards platinum. But from what Ive heard and have experienced personally , Unless you want to spend all your darring currency. health potions are used frequently to the point that it seems like this particular area in the game is pay to win.
Klaeklae
Bog Frog
Platform
- Android
I did see it. He also found a way to make gold as a fire wiz (if he is lvl 35). +1 for him! It sounds like it was also a challenge that was somehow overcame. So mission accomplished! Maybe he didn't make it solo, but he still made it.
At any rate, other than attempting to temper all of the people who think prince is too hard (or raids in general) at levels they haven't achieved yet, I like to focus on ways to tackle the current challenge that is currently raids.
Roak seems to be ok with prince with no rebirths.. maybe less damage is more! How can this be??!? But that's just one example.. one possible strategy we all looked over or chose not to reference or ask a follow up question.
For me, that's a more worthwhile discussion.
Buying EZ gingerbread is a worthwhile solution right now because it is available. And an available strategy to all. Complaining about how they are temporary is good to know, but not really helpful. Newsflash: Raids are temporary too. They match!
I might be biased with all of this though.. I work in an industry where a lot of people in it, on a daily basis, say it is "too hard". But then one day, their attitudes shift.. and they stop complaining to each other in the crab bucket, and start looking for actionable solutions to the "hardness".. and voila! They suddenly luck into success.
Yeah raids are hard. Let's figure it out.
-klaeklae
Ildranach
Squirrel
Platform
- Android
- PC
I see you missed the part where Rubyn said there were a lot of full heals used.
This isn't figuring it out.
This is being forced to use premium consumables in order to progress.
Roak is a warrior class. Rubyn is a fire wiz. Their sustain methods are completely different. Warrior has a lot more damage soak available to them.
Rubyn
Arch Wizard
Characters
Rubyn
Platform
- Android
- PC
I figured it out already, it's badly balanced.
Hp of mobs should grow slightly (my ability/hp didn't raise 1000% like mobs) and timers should be longer.
How am I supposed to magically get much stronger and resilient leveling up, to match mobs? At some point you get overpowered.
Ofc, anything is possible to be achieved if you're stubborn enough, but is this what raid is supposed to represent?
I didn't go do solo dung before in lack of challenges, and at some point raid feels like that.
Hp of mobs should grow slightly (my ability/hp didn't raise 1000% like mobs) and timers should be longer.
How am I supposed to magically get much stronger and resilient leveling up, to match mobs? At some point you get overpowered.
Ofc, anything is possible to be achieved if you're stubborn enough, but is this what raid is supposed to represent?
I didn't go do solo dung before in lack of challenges, and at some point raid feels like that.
Rubyn
Arch Wizard
Characters
Rubyn
Platform
- Android
- PC
Klaeklae
Bog Frog
Platform
- Android
I see you missed the part about complaining not being a viable strategy to overcome obstacles.
Being forced to use a full heal to make up for sustain that is readily available in the game and available to everyone is not exactly a premium item. It is a viable strategy, and will remain a viable strategy even if you remain in denial. See: mana pots for peeps with bad mana sustain.. See: many other buffs for many other deficiencies a player might have. Maybe full hp items will stick around in another form after EZ, who knows. I feel bad for the warriors who can't just spend 5 ez currency and buy a bottle of DPS. Now that is so unfair and unbalanced!
If one was forced to purchase things with real money... yeah, completely different story.
But ok - you win. I'd rather my consumables form a colorful museum in my inventory anyway (until they all poof, I guess). They will look pretty at least!
Let's make raids just hard enough where you can use a consumable if the sound it makes brings you joy, and you can auto attack your way to platinum as long as you have the time (this way it is accessible to anyone.. except those without a lot of time... hmm.. better shorten them too).
And yes, Rubyn, most "raid" style setups like this on various games that are built with ever increasing levels are designed to do exactly what you say... the challenges increase at a greater rate than your power as a player until you finally can't possibly find another build or way to move forward and eventually plateau.
-anyway-
I shall withdraw from this thread. I have challenges to overcome.
Good luck all!
-klaeklae
Rubyn
Arch Wizard
Characters
Rubyn
Platform
- Android
- PC
Really dramatic 
Is it normal to use of 30-40 full hp to finish prince?
If that is something that was planned by devs then okay. I'm not masochist to push to platinum like that.
I'm not interested even doing it with lower alts because I won't get back invested.
Is it normal to use of 30-40 full hp to finish prince?
If that is something that was planned by devs then okay. I'm not masochist to push to platinum like that.
I'm not interested even doing it with lower alts because I won't get back invested.
Ildranach
Squirrel
Platform
- Android
- PC
So someone asked for data earlier. That someone has bowed out of the thread after making quite a few condescending remarks while not having played the class they were commenting on, but since I did the math already, I figured I'd share anyway.
Please note, I'm making a couple assumptions here that raid mobs are roughly equivalent in terms of damage across raids. If this is not accurate, please do tell me and provide your damage numbers and your resists and what level you pulled those from: I'd be happy to rework my spreadsheet.
Now, at level 5 Rook, with 37% armor and 10.7% magic resist at level 76, I take 1240 damage from a boss's auto attack and 3277 from a minion's holy bolt.
*(plus or minus a range, but let's take that number as a rough average for our napkin math here.)
This means I would take just under 2k for an auto and 3.7k for a spell at 0 resists.
This equates to just under 1k for 50% armor and 1.8k for 50% magic resists, which are the caps. Let's assume that diminishing returns don't exist and we can feasibly reach that cap for easier math.
I have roughly 166% Nature power, which gives me a heal that does just under 2k per 1.5s over 8 seconds. The cap for Nature mastery is 170%, so while it isn't the most possible, it's pretty decent. Let's assume that Nature's shield is worth the same amount for 4k effective health every 1.5s.
Now, each level of solo raid increases the damage dealt by mobs by 40%, which means that mobs do 11.6 times more damage than level 1. At level 30, which is the level at which the reflect mechanic is being proposed to be added back in for solo, an autoattack would hit me for 12.4k each.
Now, my health pool is at three stars, which gives me about 30k, so each AUTOATTACK does just under half my health, with a 3s cooldown if I'm being generous. Granted, my health could definitely be improved, but the fact remains that there is no way that you can outsustain the damage output.
This isn't even factoring in things like reflect and adds or his prisoner killing damage buff, which will only add to the incoming damage.
You wanna tell me how I'm supposed to survive that with class tools without using premium consumables?
Stuns? Mobs get resists to them and they only last 7s.
Kite? The same resists apply.
Immunity trinkets? Those only last a few seconds and then you're back on the pain train.
Health/regen? Same.
You can't kill him by improving your dps; he'll kill you right back with your own damage while hitting you himself.
You can't kill him by stunning him; you'll run out of time if you try to heal.
It shouldn't be disproportionately difficult for certain classes on Palace like this.
And for the record, I am absolutely for a challenge if there are meaningful in-game solutions that promote skill expression.
Not ones that force you to spam premium pots.
Please note, I'm making a couple assumptions here that raid mobs are roughly equivalent in terms of damage across raids. If this is not accurate, please do tell me and provide your damage numbers and your resists and what level you pulled those from: I'd be happy to rework my spreadsheet.
Now, at level 5 Rook, with 37% armor and 10.7% magic resist at level 76, I take 1240 damage from a boss's auto attack and 3277 from a minion's holy bolt.
*(plus or minus a range, but let's take that number as a rough average for our napkin math here.)
This means I would take just under 2k for an auto and 3.7k for a spell at 0 resists.
This equates to just under 1k for 50% armor and 1.8k for 50% magic resists, which are the caps. Let's assume that diminishing returns don't exist and we can feasibly reach that cap for easier math.
I have roughly 166% Nature power, which gives me a heal that does just under 2k per 1.5s over 8 seconds. The cap for Nature mastery is 170%, so while it isn't the most possible, it's pretty decent. Let's assume that Nature's shield is worth the same amount for 4k effective health every 1.5s.
Now, each level of solo raid increases the damage dealt by mobs by 40%, which means that mobs do 11.6 times more damage than level 1. At level 30, which is the level at which the reflect mechanic is being proposed to be added back in for solo, an autoattack would hit me for 12.4k each.
Now, my health pool is at three stars, which gives me about 30k, so each AUTOATTACK does just under half my health, with a 3s cooldown if I'm being generous. Granted, my health could definitely be improved, but the fact remains that there is no way that you can outsustain the damage output.
This isn't even factoring in things like reflect and adds or his prisoner killing damage buff, which will only add to the incoming damage.
You wanna tell me how I'm supposed to survive that with class tools without using premium consumables?
Stuns? Mobs get resists to them and they only last 7s.
Kite? The same resists apply.
Immunity trinkets? Those only last a few seconds and then you're back on the pain train.
Health/regen? Same.
You can't kill him by improving your dps; he'll kill you right back with your own damage while hitting you himself.
You can't kill him by stunning him; you'll run out of time if you try to heal.
It shouldn't be disproportionately difficult for certain classes on Palace like this.
And for the record, I am absolutely for a challenge if there are meaningful in-game solutions that promote skill expression.
Not ones that force you to spam premium pots.
Halleebell
Squirrel
Characters
Hallee/Freyra
Platform
- iOS
- PC
You see complaining, I see players who are voicing their experiences. What they find lacking. What they find over powered. What they feel needs to be changed. Iv already gone through a stack of 60 health potions majority being used at prince.. a few here and there due to mobs other raid elders. How can that not be forced? Once you run out you don’t get to complete them anymore! Unless you magicky have enough time to run back from the beginning which we all know is null and void. Or should I redo so my build and use sockets? I’ll have to buy those of course or wait for my AS membership to give me a few. I’m not sure why people seem to think because someone says something is too over powered that means we want it to be auto attack and skip to the next boss/mob/elder that’s taking what someone is saying out of context. Simply cause you disagree and want it to seem as if they’re being dramatic.
