Zaphyra

Master Villager
Characters
Retired
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
I agree that talents, feats and mana stats need tweaking... and I'm glad to see more experienced players making good suggestions and the Devs offering to make reasonable changes. I feel like they're making good progress and will find solutions. 🤩(y)

I would like to share an idea to address the Lv3 Mana Pots issue, which is two-fold:
  1. All Mana Pots (except Blighted) refill the same amount of mana.
    • Making Lv3 Mana Pots the cheapest source of mana. Which makes all other mana pots obsolete, greatly reducing the market for other mana pots and their ingredients.
    • Cheap mana pots encourage players to ignore mana talents/stats and rely on pots to fuel their feats. Which leads to frustration, when players level-up and find out how expensive it is, to spam mana pots during prolonged combat or try different talent/gear builds.
  2. Lv3 Mana Pots are the best source of income for new players (who may gather, farm and craft their ingredients, to sell for gold). If we make Lv3 Mana Pots obsolete, we'll be making it even more difficult for new players to earn gold.
So, how do we encourage players to use the appropriate mana pots for their level and try different builds... without making Lv3 pots obsolete? :unsure:

These are my suggestions:
  1. Scale the amount of mana each potion refills, as they level up. We already do this with health pots... which encourages players to use health pots that are appropriate to their level and creates a market for their ingredients. Let's do the same with mana.
  2. Make Lv3 Mana Pots and Lv4 Health Pots, the base ingredient for every other mana/health pot. Reduce some ingredients in higher level recipes, to keep costs reasonable (but don't eliminate anything, because we want to maintain/increase the market for all ingredients). This will not only maintain the market for blueberries, pond loach, sunback beetles and loach oil... it will revive the market for peas, admiral boletes and all farmed fruit, which will give new (and old) players, even more options to gather, farm and craft items for resale.
Here's an image with a partial list of mana pots, to help everyone see what these changes might look like (the full list of pots would make the image too large 😬). Please note: the Devs have access to mana stats, that I don't... so my "Scaled Refill" numbers are only suggestions and I expect the Devs would adjust them, as needed.

Please take a look and let me know what you think, tyvm. :geek:👇

VHManaChart.gif
 
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IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
That is what I was saying as well:
...cool-downs need to be modified as well or the spam will only continue, just in a different fashion.
Short pauses in between or during encounters is necessary to proper pacing and at endgame we have lost this flow in favor of spam clicks
As it is now, there is no consequence to using the lower level (blueberry) mana crafted, and it gives the same mana replenish as the lvl 93. I think the mana replenishment of 1000 at lvl 5 is far too high, it should be way lower. And should increase in level as the level of the crafted item increases.

I never could figure out why the same 1000 mana was for all crafted mana, it never made any sense to me and only encourages spamming.
 
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Zaphyra

Master Villager
Characters
Retired
Platform
Android, PC
As it is now, there is no consequence to using the lower level (blueberry) mana crafted, and it gives the same mana replenish as the lvl 93. I think the mana replenishment of 1000 at lvl 5 is far too high, it should be way lower. And should increase in level as the level of the crafted item increases.

I never could figure out why the same 1000 mana was for all crafted mana, it never made any sense to me and only encourages spamming.
I totally agree and I'd be interested to hear what you think about my suggestions in post #63. If you think my ideas won't work, please let me know why... and maybe they may be improved. 🤓👍
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
I totally agree and I'd be interested to hear what you think about my suggestions in post #63. If you think my ideas won't work, please let me know why... and maybe they may be improved. 🤓👍
I'd probably say keep the mats the same but your suggestions of regen % are really good!
 
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Zaphyra

Master Villager
Characters
Retired
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
I'd probably say keep the mats the same but your suggestions of regen % are really good!
Thanks for taking a look! 😊

If you don't think changing the recipes is a good idea... do you have any other suggestions, to create demand for low-level gathered, farmed and crafted items... to give new players a way to earn gold and participate in our Trade community? 🤔
 

LordKyrie

Legendary Hero
Platform
Android, PC
gold cost should be reconsidered if you are removing the instant mana regen and the absorb shield which are the two reasons i am willing to pay the expense of lvl 90+ mana potions
 

Jytal

Servant of Mallok
Platform
iOS
I agree that talents, feats and mana stats need tweaking... and I'm glad to see more experienced players making good suggestions and the Devs offering to make reasonable changes. I feel like they're making good progress and will find solutions. 🤩(y)

I would like to share an idea to address the Lv3 Mana Pots issue, which is two-fold:
  1. All Mana Pots (except Blighted) refill the same amount of mana.
    • Making Lv3 Mana Pots the cheapest source of mana. Which makes all other mana pots obsolete, greatly reducing the market for other mana pots and their ingredients.
    • Cheap mana pots encourage players to ignore mana talents/stats and rely on pots to fuel their feats. Which leads to frustration, when players level-up and find out how expensive it is, to spam mana pots during prolonged combat or try different talent/gear builds.
  2. Lv3 Mana Pots are the best source of income for new players (who may gather, farm and craft their ingredients, to sell for gold). If we make Lv3 Mana Pots obsolete, we'll be making it even more difficult for new players to earn gold.
So, how do we encourage players to use the appropriate mana pots for their level and try different builds... without making Lv3 pots obsolete? :unsure:

These are my suggestions:
  1. Scale the amount of mana each potion refills, as they level up. We already do this with health pots... which encourages players to use health pots that are appropriate to their level and creates a market for their ingredients. Let's do the same with mana.
  2. Make Lv3 Mana Pots and Lv4 Health Pots, the base ingredient for every other mana/health pot. Reduce some ingredients in higher level recipes, to keep costs reasonable (but don't eliminate anything, because we want to maintain/increase the market for all ingredients). This will not only maintain the market for blueberries, pond loach, sunback beetles and loach oil... it will revive the market for peas, admiral boletes and all farmed fruit, which will give new (and old) players, even more options to gather, farm and craft items for resale.
Here's an image with a partial list of mana pots, to help everyone see what these changes might look like (the full list of pots would make the image too large 😬). Please note: the Devs have access to mana stats, that I don't... so my "Scaled Refill" numbers are only suggestions and I expect the Devs would adjust them, as needed.

Please take a look and let me know what you think, tyvm. :geek:👇

View attachment 11540
I liked this idea and I thought it was cool until I saw the mana regen from a lv3 pot.
The base mana costs are the same no matter what level the skill or player is. The only way to decrease it is mana efficiency which as a lower player probably won't have. Even without the increased cooldown that a higher level player will have compared to a lower level player, the mana usage is high and should not just make lv3 pots useless just for scaling purposes.
100 mana is one spell for a low level, but at a low level they probably won't have as many spells to use compared to to a higher level will. But if the player chooses to have a lot of spells that early on, that is their own choice but they shouldn't be punished with not being able to regenerate enough mana for even one or two spells. The mana gained from a pot should be scaled but it shouldn't come with a nerf to low level players.

Truthfully, I am in agreement with Giruv, mana management changes should not be done at this time until a clearer direction is found, especially any changes to mana pots.
 
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Zaphyra

Master Villager
Characters
Retired
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
I liked this idea and I thought it was cool until I saw the mana regen from a lv3 pot.
The base mana costs are the same no matter what level the skill or player is. The only way to decrease it is mana efficiency which as a lower player probably won't have. Even without the increased cooldown that a higher level player will have compared to a lower level player, the mana usage is high and should not just make lv3 pots useless just for scaling purposes.
100 mana is one spell for a low level, but at a low level they probably won't have as many spells to use compared to to a higher level will. But if the player chooses to have a lot of spells that early on, that is their own choice but they shouldn't be punished with not being able to regenerate enough mana for even one or two spells. The mana gained from a pot should be scaled but it shouldn't come with a nerf to low level players.

Truthfully, I am in agreement with Giruv, mana management changes should not be done at this time until a clearer direction is found, especially any changes to mana pots.
You're absolutely right Jytal... for some reason, I was thinking feats cost less mana at lower levels, but I went back and looked at my lower level weapons and the cost to cast level 6 feats, is the same as my level 80 feats. 🤯

This might explain why all mana pots refill the same amount of mana and shields were probably added, to make the higher-level (and more costly) pots appealing... but the strategy has failed, because most players don't feel the shield is worth the extra cost. 😬

Maybe if we brainstorm, we can come up with a better solution...

Can the Devs adjust mana costs to scale with the mana pots, as our characters level-up? 🤔

UPDATE: I forgot to mention that in the original post, I also explained that my "Scaled Refill" numbers are only suggestions, to illustrate the concept. :geek:👇

Here's an image with a partial list of mana pots, to help everyone see what these changes might look like (the full list of pots would make the image too large 😬). Please note: the Devs have access to mana stats, that I don't... so my "Scaled Refill" numbers are only suggestions and I expect the Devs would adjust them, as needed.
 

V

Mad Otter Games
Developer
I'm curious whether there are any updates surrounding the mana system changes, or whether shadow priests should continue to expect to use 100 mana potions per raid just so that they can perform their role as DPS.
 

CaraLox

Jack Of All Trades
Characters
10
Platform
iOS, PC
I'm curious whether there are any updates surrounding the mana system changes, or whether shadow priests should continue to expect to use 100 mana potions per raid just so that they can perform their role as DPS.
I don't use 100.... 50 maybe 75... :p
 

Felina

Adventurer
it's not the mana pots that's the issue here, its the base mana cost of certain spells. The nature and length of battles have changed significantly since Starfall was introduced but very little, if any, consideration has been given to the mana cost of spells in relation to increases in health and resistance of bosses and the duration of raid style combat of facing multiple bosses. Instead of focusing on mana pots and the knock on effects that might occur to the economy etc, why not simply visit the actual mana cost of spells. I appreciate that some work was done on increasing mana regeneration across the board but this has made barely made a dent.
 

Sinjin

Jack Of All Trades
Platform
iOS
There is a cost for being the highest dps. People should be forced to play Ice Wizard for 100 hours every time they complain “my mana usage is too high when I lead the dps chart” or grousing because their mana doesn’t keep up with their clicky-clicky-boom-boom rotation when rocking 14% clarity.
 

V

Mad Otter Games
Developer
There is a cost for being the highest dps. People should be forced to play Ice Wizard for 100 hours every time they complain “my mana usage is too high when I lead the dps chart” or grousing because their mana doesn’t keep up with their clicky-clicky-boom-boom rotation when rocking 14% clarity.
Not how it works. Is there a mana cost in being the top healer in the charts? No, in fact they get rewarded with mana restoration for frequent casting. Not to mention there are other DPS classes such as Marksman with little to no mana issues thanks to a specific talent in their main tree.

We have heard about the problems surrounding ice wizards non-stop. We get the point. Just because ice wizards aren't in a great place does not mean that every other class must suffer in some capacity.
 

Zaphyra

Master Villager
Characters
Retired
Platform
Android, PC
When the majority of players craft and use only level 3 mana pots, because they're the cheapest... and the only difference between mana pots, is the shield... then I think we have to agree, that the potion recipes aren't working as intended. 😬

This affects not only our combat abilities, because we require too many pots during prolonged combat and/or we run out of mana... but also our Villager activities, because we must spend so much time farming blueberries or buy them from others... and also our game economy, because the ingredients for mid-level mana pots, are seldom used and have lost much of their value. 🙁

I agree that there should be a cost, for being at the top of the dps charts... but I believe the cost should be the need to use level appropriate mana pots, that require level appropriate garden/gathered ingredients and cost a bit more to make... but will restore more mana per pot and require us to use fewer pots, as we level-up. 🙂

Such a system would reward players for leveling-up their combat, gardening, gathering and cooking skills... and encourage them to craft quality gear, to gain higher cooldown rates... and to gnog more feats onto their weapons. 🤩

It would also help our game economy, by increasing the market for mana pots and ingredients of all levels. 🤓👍
 
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sirbabbo

Guest
I do agree that the mana system is very shambolic at best.. Has to be better. The inconsistency is very bad. 10% of base mana is not a good solution at all and that is any mana pots. I felt the last proposal with a penalty was a good idea that encourages heroes to go do village duties!
 

Sinjin

Jack Of All Trades
Platform
iOS
Not how it works. Is there a mana cost in being the top healer in the charts? No, in fact they get rewarded with mana restoration for frequent casting. Not to mention there are other DPS classes such as Marksman with little to no mana issues thanks to a specific talent in their main tree.

We have heard about the problems surrounding ice wizards non-stop. We get the point. Just because ice wizards aren't in a great place does not mean that every other class must suffer in some capacity.
I wasn’t just showing the flag for ice wiz. My implied point is their modest dps (relative to their ‘real’-dps brethren) is commensurate with their relatively lower mana costs. Other classes do more… so there has to be some price to being demonstrably better within an archetype, if not among the classes.

I’ll agree holy priest perhaps doesn’t pay that price and is somewhat imbalanced (their highest mana sustain is on the subclass with the least mana burn rate). It’s imbalanced and I believe the difference (in mana costs and regen/sustain) is a lot more than is justifiable, leaving Shadow Priests to rely much heavier on pots and scornyx.
 
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