Damon Otter

Mad Otter Games
Developer
Hello Everyone!
We're glad to have the Shadow of the Eclipse live now, and the new Raid feature.

We are playbalancing the Raids, and so expect some large changes in the coming days on the difficulty levels as we try to get them balanced so they are challenging, but not too challenging.

As of 6:30pm Pacific Time, we made Raids more difficult at the higher challenge levels. Challenge Level 1 is unchanged, Level 2 is slightly harder now than before, etc., and Level 5 is much harder than before. Hopefully, it is not TOO difficult. No worries, if so, we can adjust it down or up.

We also increased the level cap to 7 instead of 5.

Cheers
 
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KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
Last edited
I have been hearing that lower levels find it very difficult at the lowest challenge levels. This likely has less to do with their level and more to do with their gear, talent choices, and lack of socket expenditure. I think level 1 and 2 should be made easier for them. Otherwise, they will not be able to do a Raid without an experienced high level or two to carry the team.

I did Rookery level 7 on my tank. Much harder, and definitely need to strategize. We had:
  • Level 95 Lightning Tank
  • Level 95 Holy Healer
  • Level 94 Holy Healer
  • Level 56 Water Healer
  • Level 83 Nature DPS
  • Level 95 Fury DPS
So not really the most balanced team role-wise and some lower levels. It was doable, but we needed to use a strategy. Without one, we would've lost for sure. I died on Challenge level 6 because I thought I could just tank through it as I did on earlier ones, but I was wrong!

How high do players have to progress to get the season rewards? I wonder if the difficulty may be too hard if they need to go all the way up to 20. I think at the rate it is going, I may be able to complete 9 or maybe 10, but nothing more than that. We had around 5 minutes left in the Raid. We did have to skip some enemies (which I really hate doing). I wonder if the timer could be increased to 25.
 

SprigOfHalcyon

Master Farmer
Royal Guardian
Platform
Android, PC
Dunno how it will be exactly, might still be too hard at some level, but maybe we need to grind up some more dungeoneering levels. They give massive bonuses it appears.
 

Halleebell

Squirrel
Characters
Hallee/Freyra
Platform
iOS, PC
Maybe once we are earning dukets or whatever they’re Called and can start getting recourses it might be easier. I just hope the boosts/ buffs fall in line with the way the raids are. I don’t think mana/ heals will be enough. And mind you I was planning on doing a lot of soloing. I’m trying to figure out how that’s gonna work
 

Damon Otter

Mad Otter Games
Developer
Thanks for sharing your results! That's very helpful.

We are getting closer on balance. Maybe a little too tough.

Ducats and Relic balance will affect all of this also.
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
I think the difficulty balance between solo and a group of 6 is way too big. I just did Lilith at level 7, solo she just did like 8k damage per hit while on a group of 6 she did 100k damage per hit. Is it intended? I feel player might be inclined to do it solo if that's the case.
 

Halleebell

Squirrel
Characters
Hallee/Freyra
Platform
iOS, PC
I think the difficulty balance between solo and a group of 6 is way too big. I just did Lilith at level 7, solo she just did like 8k damage per hit while on a group of 6 she did 100k damage per hit. Is it intended? I feel player might be inclined to do it solo if that's the case.
I did a 3 person run with just two of us. Fire wiz and lightning. I had to use a few full heals because I was getting hit so hard. And even let myself dye once cause of my ultimate. Compared to the solo there was a big difference still took a good amount of damage but there was a noticeable difference.
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
I feel that the scaling should be around x3 or x6 damage at most the same as the party size, x12 for a group 6 doesn't really make sense to me. What will happen when we got a group 12 and higher level later on, If we already take 100k damage on each the elder auto attack, not even considering if it crit... Damage as high as that should only happen conditionally, like when we failed to dodge the rune etc.
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
I think Zikiti attack should become ranged, because I'm afraid at higher difficulty level, melee class will have problem at solo just because they can't kill the spider spawn, since if melee class go for the spawn Zikiti will follow and just make them meet faster.
 

KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
Last edited
Dunno how it will be exactly, might still be too hard at some level, but maybe we need to grind up some more dungeoneering levels. They give massive bonuses it appears.
I've stated this elsewhere but will repeat that I am not a fan of Dungeoneering. This adds an additional layer of balancing complexity and a performance gap on top of the existing one. Will Raids be balanced for gear, or dungeoneering? I don't think we need another stat progression model in the form of relics and dungeoneering when gear already serves that purpose.

I would prefer if Relics provided interesting smaller boosts players could choose from, such as 5% speed boost in Raids, 2x mana regen in Raids, 1 auto ressurect per Raid session etc. The stat boosts and Dungeoneering are slowly going to divide the community. Those that run the Dungeons often will outgrow their friends slowly and steadily to the point where we won't be able to run together because one player will have a serious advantage or disadvantage

Below is a quick example of 2 different players after a single day's worth of Raids:

Level 7 Dungeoneering - Lightning Tank
1590063046512.png
Level 15 Dungeoneering Shadow Priest
1590063064485.png


When will we get to the point where class roles become difficult to perform? Will healers with low dungeoneering and mastery boosts be able to keep up with the +100 or +200k health that tanks with high dungeoneering possess?

Will tanks with low dungeoneering be able to hold aggro against powerful DPS players with high Dungoneering?

How will this look weeks, months or years from now when players have had a chance to truly grind levels? Will new Raid players even be able to run with established players? Will they ever be able to run with established players who have had a 1 or 2 year head start to build up levels? The longer this feature sticks around, the more likely the community will resent you if you remove it. Why? Because people don't like to give up power. It's a nasty thing that clouds their judgement. They want more, they need more, they need to be stronger, they need to be better. I'm afraid of what this infinite progression system in the form of dungeoneering and relics will look like down the road. I wonder when I will not be welcome on runs because my level is not high enough to perform, or too high and I'm essentially carrying the team.

Please consider removing or changing this feature.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
The problem of relics making players too strong to run alongside less experienced or lower level characters can surely be addressed by having an option to toggle relics and their bonus effects off. That way, players can group up and all have the same bonus (none).

That won't address the issue of some players still being "better" at raids than others, though. By their very nature, the raids are progressive - practice doing them and you will learn how to do them better. Players who are very familiar with raids and run them frequently are always going to be better at it than those who only take part now and then, and high level well geared players are always going to be stronger than low level chars with fewer items (eg no trinkets) and rare or uncommon gear as opposed to legendary or epic.

Even without relics, when it comes to raids or dungeons - All characters are equal - but some are more equal than others.
 

Black_Cvlt

Arch Wizard
Characters
Danger Zone, Black Cvlt, Coup de Grace, Crafty Hands
Platform
Android, PC
I'm afraid of what this infinite progression system in the form of dungeoneering and relics will look like down the road.
But it's not infinite. They are capped by 16 level for relics and 112 level for dungeoneering. It's doable for everyone.
 

Airy

Huntress
Concerning the solo raids, I don't know how high a 'normal' player is supposed to get in the raid system. I guess it depends on your class and of course how deep you are into being an expert on getting the perfect build.
My marksman hunter, 95, equipped with legendary fully enhanced gear has no chance against Lilith on level 6 in solo raids. Although I'm quick enough to avoid the runes, I just get beaten up by the whole group.
It might be possible if you use some full heals and manas, and if it is one of the goals of the raids to make people use them, then it is alright I guess. For me, I like to spend money on cosmetics, AS, and enchantments that last, not so much on consumables.

I have alwas had trouble with groups with my marksman, not sure if I am just not a very good player, or if MM hunters have trouble in general fighting groups. So since in the raids you have to fight groups all the time, solo raids wont be something I will pursue a lot because I will just get frustrated.
 

Sinjin

Jack Of All Trades
Platform
iOS
I think Zikiti attack should become ranged, because I'm afraid at higher difficulty level, melee class will have problem at solo just because they can't kill the spider spawn, since if melee class go for the spawn Zikiti will follow and just make them meet faster.
I’ve found that this works in my favor, at least through challenge level 5 (haven’t tried higher), if I just avoid the adds; use Zikiti’s melee-only restriction by slow-kiting her away from the spider adds.
 

KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
But it's not infinite. They are capped by 16 level for relics and 112 level for dungeoneering. It's doable for everyone.
That is assuming there will not be additional towers or Raids beyond what is currently listed though. It looks like the Dungeoneering values are double its level. So if a player has level 112 Dungeoneering that would be +224% Vitality and Masteries. That's a massive gap for players to bridge, and that's not even including the Relic bonuses. It is also going to make hybrid builds even more powerful than they already are.

There is just one too many progression models for my taste. The season progression, individual Raid progression, Relic progression and Dungeoneering.
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
I’ve found that this works in my favor, at least through challenge level 5 (haven’t tried higher), if I just avoid the adds; use Zikiti’s melee-only restriction by slow-kiting her away from the spider adds.
Oh I don't even think to do kite her, might be a bit annoying to do as warrior, but that is a great idea. So far at challenge level 7, I can just kill her while ignoring the spiders, If she doesn't continuously spawn the big red one
 
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Ekimie

Hunter
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
I think you can already do that in the relic menu. If you click it again it goes dark and it's unselected
The problem of relics making players too strong to run alongside less experienced or lower level characters can surely be addressed by having an option to toggle relics and their bonus effects off.
 

GoGoGadget

Servant of Mallok
Characters
GoGoGadgetGo
Platform
Android, PC
That is assuming there will not be additional towers or Raids beyond what is currently listed though. It looks like the Dungeoneering values are double its level. So if a player has level 112 Dungeoneering that would be +224% Vitality and Masteries. That's a massive gap for players to bridge, and that's not even including the Relic bonuses. It is also going to make hybrid builds even more powerful than they already are.

There is just one too many progression models for my taste. The season progression, individual Raid progression, Relic progression and Dungeoneering.
I would like to see full raid thru before really thinking about what the bonuses will cause. Atm its so hard to see the final effects as everything is still quite easy.
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
on solo, she spawns add spiders?
yup just like Fenela the 80 elders, at least if you let her live long enough. I find some fun enemy mechanics if I let them live longer, too bad most of them died to quickly/ so can't wait to do Raid at higher difficulty level.

Also want to add for Lilith when we kill her minion there should be a delay before she spawn a new group of minions, the instant spawn of minion make it really hard to solo as non tank/healer class.
 
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