How many permanent relics would you like

  • Total voters
    34

Ozul

Citizen
Platform
iOS
Last edited
This is a poll to see if people are interested in a choice of permanent relics if they wish to see them happen or not. This isn’t a influenced poll decision making decision that would force the devs into this if one poll answer is a favorite. Maybe this would help the devs with extra data to look at on feedback.

I got this idea from another post I commented on about raid season 5 update.

Edit: This isn’t promoting relics to be all permanent relics! However if you like that idea then you can make a choice.

Also debate your reasoning behind your vote if you would like too!
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
If relics became permanent, then by definition those who raid the most will overtime accumulate the best relics, and of necessity would become the most powerful. Not only that, but those who have already gained powerful relics would simply keep demanding better and better relics to give them incentive to continue raiding. That in turn would create a two tier system of "top" players who raid a lot and everyone else.

That in turn would lead to raiding becoming regarded as not an option but a necessity, just as rebirth, which in theory is entirely optional is already considered a necessary grind to get the best characters. We already have players who leave the game because they become disillusioned grinding through yet another rebirth, not beause they want to but because they can't "compete" without those extra talent points. Adding raiding as a further grind on top of rebirth would simply accelerate that burnout.

(In case anyone hasn't guessed, I voted for none.)
 

Ozul

Citizen
Platform
iOS
Just to clarify about the poll it isn’t about permanent relics because there are choices to have 0 or some or all. And nor I am I promoting all relics to be permanent.

Here is my opinion: I personally wouldn’t favor all relics to be permanent and I would love to see a compromise for all. I would Say some people are hardcore, by choice, to get the best relics and maybe do raids solely for the relics. The thrill of getting a celestial relic is important for their gaming fun. Maybe a relic or two to pick for those players to do heroics would be encourage to stick around more? I think it would excite those who love the rng drop and would love to keep something that they put the time into (by choice).

So my choice we will be 3 or 4 you can pick to be permanent each season and the rest will be deleted after the season. We have 7 slots to pick relics so there would be 4 or 3 open slots with no relics and no relic back ups.

That’s my opinion and choice. However I’m not asking for permanent relics just a poll for data to pick and the why you picked your choice.
 

Cosmickitty

Bog Frog
Platform
iOS
different suggestion, relics that degrade over time. After a month celestial becomes legendary, then a month later legendary becomes epic, etc. if you really don’t care you could keep it longer as a weaker relic.
 
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Ozul

Citizen
Platform
iOS
I would like to see relics removed from the game, but to be fair, and for reasons already mentioned in post #2 by Majenta, I'd remove the rebirth system too.
It’s a fair statement for relics to be gone. I remember season one the relics where additional stats added to the raid, and was kinda fun having a million hp lol.

As for rbs, Majenta nailed the points that it is a necessity now and not optional. But I’ve found just doing bronze raids more fun at a lower toon to get a rare relic to help the rb process but I would say i wouldn’t cry if rbs where taking away.
 

Xii

Jack Of All Trades
Characters
Xi, Plavuša
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
If relics became permanent, then by definition those who raid the most will overtime accumulate the best relics, and of necessity would become the most powerful. Not only that, but those who have already gained powerful relics would simply keep demanding better and better relics to give them incentive to continue raiding. That in turn would create a two tier system of "top" players who raid a lot and everyone else.

That in turn would lead to raiding becoming regarded as not an option but a necessity, just as rebirth, which in theory is entirely optional is already considered a necessary grind to get the best characters. We already have players who leave the game because they become disillusioned grinding through yet another rebirth, not beause they want to but because they can't "compete" without those extra talent points. Adding raiding as a further grind on top of rebirth would simply accelerate that burnout.

(In case anyone hasn't guessed, I voted for none.)
Relics or not if you are a bad player you cannot compete with good ones. It is a mentality not an item that changes this. Having to refarm relics does never ever change the fact that those good players will have them anyway in a couple of weeks and will keep them for half a year as it is now.. What does this change?? #1 good players who already farmed 1000 runs to get all celestial relics can focus on getting any new relics enjoying any new map that is released with the new season instead of farming OLD maps. #2 Enjoying the new rewards from the new season and doing a variety of content rather than 1 map just to get a relic that you already had...

Villagers who raid 1 time a week and have blue relics don't understand the RNG behind getting all celestials.

You are trying to solve competitiveness that is rooted in our DNA by making it "seem" like optional.. It will never be if you are competitive, and those who are and compete know this...

You talk about burn out but don't think of those that need to do 1000 runs again for what they had? Stick to villager life!

"If relics became permanent, then by definition those who raid the most will overtime accumulate the best relics, and of necessity would become the most powerful."
-You really just explained how life works. I'm sure you don't want your work prestige to be taken away just because new employees think it will be needed and not optional.

Those who don't raid often will never have the best ones if they are not permanent and will never be able to compete with top player who anyway get them in a month.

If they were permanent good players would be able to help those who want to be competitive to get them.
 

Littlenymph

Squirrel
Characters
Layla Littlenymph
Platform
PC, Steam
My impression has always been that the Raids are the hardest content in the game and that earning the relics aids the players in moving forward against progressively harder content.
If that's the case, the relics are Raid items that were never really intended to have a permanent place in the open game world.
What's the point of doing the hardest content in the game if you exit it so overpowered that the remainder of the game presents little challenge?
The relics do not linger long in the open game world because they were not designed to be there in the first place. I'm sure there are many that don't like the design but the fact is, relics are functioning as intended.
 

Cosmickitty

Bog Frog
Platform
iOS
Really not a fan of calling people “bad” players because they didn’t hit heroic 99… this game doesn’t have much in the way of crazy mechanics, your good and bad players only really differ by level and gear.

I had mostly celestial relics (went to take a ss but they’re gone now, thought it was tomorro) with a few legendary. I still very much think they should be seasonal. There is near nothing to do at end game… what you going to do instead of grind for relics? Kill blight bounties for the 9000th time?

the only option to keep ppl coming back for raids is either an endless pile or new relics better than the last or to make them temporary.

raids are fun, I’m going to be running anyways, I’d like to be excited when I get a celestial relic, not mad it’s the wrong one on the list of 50 different relics.

I also wouldn’t be against relics only working in raids… except my jump relic. You can pry my super jump from my cold dead hands. That needs to be something I can buy with charter instead of a raid reward though.
 

Ekimie

Hunter
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
your good and bad players only really differ by level and gear.
No, their good and bad players only really differ by their hardcoreness. The only difference is between those who will grind the very last grain of power they can get from their toons, and those for whom the game is, and always will be, a game, for enjoyment and leisure play. Not another job. And apparently the latter is considered lesser.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Last edited
Perhaps a better distinction would be between more powerful characters and less powerful characters rather than between "good" or "bad" players.

As someone who has been playing the game for almost ten years now, and who has characters with specialisations on all 5 servers, has multiple characters across those servers, and has characters maxed in all village skills except ranching, but who nevertheless has not a single character on any server that has ever passed 75 in combat, I have no problem in conceding that other players' characters are far more powerful than mine, but I object to being dismissed as a "bad" player simply because I don't enjoy the combat side of the game enough to motivate myself to max the combat skills of any of my characters.
 

Xii

Jack Of All Trades
Characters
Xi, Plavuša
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited by a moderator
No, their good and bad players only really differ by their hardcoreness. The only difference is between those who will grind the very last grain of power they can get from their toons, and those for whom the game is, and always will be, a game, for enjoyment and leisure play. Not another job. And apparently the latter is considered lesser.
Not true at all. You say if you grind hard enough you will be as fast as Usian Bolt or as good as CR7, as innovative as Steve jobs, as intelligent as Einstein or as creative as J.K Rowling. There is a reason 1% succeed and 99% don't. You have a closed mindset to think this way.

Being good means you are capable to think outside of the box (which most bad players can't ), to have high situational awareness, critical thinking, calm demeanor, creativity and all that while being able to have a fast processing brain that can adapt to the reality of now as much as possible.

People who (mod edit)
 

KID PUMPKIN

Adventurer
Platform
Android
I prefer to think there is no such thing as a bad player, just because players like raiding a zillion times to get something doesn't make them good, powerful? Maybe, but at the same time there are players without a single raid done that can still outlast and outdamage those with relics. I'd say a good player is one willing to help others, a good player plays how they want and has fun with what they do, if there is a such thing as a bad player, I think it would just come down to being a bully or troll, other than that I see no bad players.
 

Sinjin

Jack Of All Trades
Platform
iOS
There is a reason 1% succeed and 99% don't.
Expanding this further, what you’re saying is true for only a limited subset of players. There are competitive players that minmax, and, of those, there are some who can objectively quantify their success (or ‘domination’, or ‘excellence’) using whatever metrics you’d prefer (raid solo/grouped tier lists, #95 elders killed, # 95 elders killed solo, or any other example of “can solo <something designed as group content>“)… but 99% of players aren’t simply losing at your objectives, they are perhaps persuing other objectives.

Not everyone brings the same thing to our little island; they don’t all get the same thing from it, either. Just sayin.
 

Xii

Jack Of All Trades
Characters
Xi, Plavuša
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
Perhaps a better distinction would be between more powerful characters and less powerful characters rather than between "good" or "bad" players.

As someone who has been playing the game for almost ten years now, and who has characters with specialisations on all 5 servers, has multiple characters across those servers, and has characters maxed in all village skills except ranching, but who nevertheless has not a single character on any server that has ever passed 75 in combat, I have no problem in conceding that other players' characters are far more powerful than mine, but I object to being dismissed as a "bad" player simply because I don't enjoy the combat side of the game enough to motivate myself to max the combat skills of any of my characters.
If you have no real combat experience why are you commenting so confidently on raid relics that are pure combat rewards? Go and do heroic raids 800 times and tell me it's not a stupid system and especially if you need to redo them every season.

Again it's not about what you have but what you can do with what you have. Clearly having so many chars and no maxed should not only disqualify you from this thread but from being a mod too. Especially as you harvest more seeds in a day than raids you have done in total.

1 example: You hit lvl 20 and ask for help with Elders. I hit lvl 21 and figure out how to build my char to solo them and in less than 2 minutes. As a hunter. No premium consumables etc. It is something you advise to be impossible for new players too as I have seen. Surely this makes you bad as no matter the gear your mentality and skill level won't make the best gear work for you. Hopefully those new players don't take your advice and try themselves.
 

Ekimie

Hunter
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
If you have no real combat experience why are you commenting so confidently on raid relics that are pure combat rewards? Go and do heroic raids 800 times and tell me it's not a stupid system and especially if you need to redo them every season.

Again it's not about what you have but what you can do with what you have. Clearly having so many chars and no maxed should not only disqualify you from this thread but from being a mod too. Especially as you harvest more seeds in a day than raids you have done in total.

1 example: You hit lvl 20 and ask for help with Elders. I hit lvl 21 and figure out how to build my char to solo them and in less than 2 minutes. As a hunter. No premium consumables etc. It is something you advise to be impossible for new players too as I have seen. Surely this makes you bad as no matter the gear your mentality and skill level won't make the best gear work for you. Hopefully those new players don't take your advice and try themselves.
Dude, moderator ability has nothing to do with your combat level. You don't have to be lvl 90 in order to tell someone their language is not acceptable (to name an example). Just as being lvl 95, with all relics and the best gear in the game, does not necessarily make you mod material.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
If you have no real combat experience why are you commenting so confidently on raid relics that are pure combat rewards? Go and do heroic raids 800 times and tell me it's not a stupid system and especially if you need to redo them every season.

Again it's not about what you have but what you can do with what you have. Clearly having so many chars and no maxed should not only disqualify you from this thread but from being a mod too. Especially as you harvest more seeds in a day than raids you have done in total.

1 example: You hit lvl 20 and ask for help with Elders. I hit lvl 21 and figure out how to build my char to solo them and in less than 2 minutes. As a hunter. No premium consumables etc. It is something you advise to be impossible for new players too as I have seen. Surely this makes you bad as no matter the gear your mentality and skill level won't make the best gear work for you. Hopefully those new players don't take your advice and try themselves.
Actually I solo'd the level 20 elders when my chars were in the 20s ( I think the lowest was my warrior who solo'd them at level 24). This was back when elk's shadow was still in Elk Meadow, long before Starfall, before rebirth existed, before legendary gear existed, when you couldn't create massively OP characters simply by giving them uber powered gear.

I have never said to any player, new or old, that soloing elders is impossible, even at level. What I do say, which I am sure you have heard, is that the elders are intended as group content, and that as a new player you will probably need help to kill them at level. I doubt very much that many players would find fault with this statement.

As for why was I commenting on the thread at all, I was merely doing as the OP asked in their final statement to "debate your reasoning behind your vote if you would like too!"
 
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Littlenymph

Squirrel
Characters
Layla Littlenymph
Platform
PC, Steam
If you have no real combat experience why are you commenting so confidently on raid relics that are pure combat rewards? Go and do heroic raids 800 times and tell me it's not a stupid system and especially if you need to redo them every season.

Again it's not about what you have but what you can do with what you have. Clearly having so many chars and no maxed should not only disqualify you from this thread but from being a mod too. Especially as you harvest more seeds in a day than raids you have done in total.

1 example: You hit lvl 20 and ask for help with Elders. I hit lvl 21 and figure out how to build my char to solo them and in less than 2 minutes. As a hunter. No premium consumables etc. It is something you advise to be impossible for new players too as I have seen. Surely this makes you bad as no matter the gear your mentality and skill level won't make the best gear work for you. Hopefully those new players don't take your advice and try themselves.
By your standard, a third or more of the moderators are unqualified to be one. You can put me solidly in that group. It would seem that you have little awareness of what it is a moderator actually does.

Having a good general knowledge of the game is something of a requirement. Being elite at every aspect of the game is not. I do not Raid that much because the content does not hold much interest to me. Clearly, you are far better at it than I will ever be. That said, I have a firm grasp of the place Raids have within the game and I am confident in saying that Raid relics are intended for Raid progression. They are simply not designed to be a part of the open world of V&H. You may not care for the way they function but that's not the same as not functioning as intended. They were designed specifically for Raids, and Raids are where they belong. Considering the vote for zero relics is almost double that of every other choice, combined, my opinion clearly mirrors that of the majority.

One thing that a dev will always try to do is produce content that suits what the majority of players will enjoy. I understand your position but it is a minority position that is held by a select few. Raids remain a work in progress and I'm sure that they will continue to refine them, but they are not going to make a sweeping change to satisfy the desires of a few when the clear majority is opposed to it. In this case, the majority of players are correct. Making Raid relics a permanent feature outside of the Raid instances would not be a beneficial change for the game as a whole.
 

Helos

Citizen
Characters
Helos, Helox, Malevos
Platform
iOS
Hi all,
I totally see what you are saying Xii. I would say though, as someone who is very much a min/max player and is always attempting to get an edge on things, I have ground out ALOT of elder levels, just to have an edge on some, and gear and etc, etc. I understand what you want here. You want the credit of your hard work. I totally understand that, and I voted on this poll to have all relics.

HOWEVER, what I also understand about this game is that I am very much in the minority of players in this game, and that permanent relics are never going to happen. Most people don't want to sit and grind elder levels or grind out celestials. But what I would say though is as much as I try to push the Dev's buttons my way, I get the fact that they also need to consider their base and what the game as a whole means to everyone, not just the hardcore players.

That fact alone is also what keeps me coming back to this game in the end. I CAN be hardcore about things, and not everyone else has to be. I CAN choose to be ridiculous but most aren't, but its not obligatory. Due to that it's what keeps me here in the end. I can be at the top of this game, not worry about P2W, or any obligations to be the best or get outdated by others, because it's a more chill game.

I could very much see allowing 1 or 2 relics to be permanent to allow for some customization of your toon. But I also understand that Dev's don't want to make this the game where you HAVE to do anything to be competitive, and this is not exactly a competitive game really. They've done a decent job making it the opposite actually.

I doubt this helps at all, but hopefully it does. I know it can seem sometimes like the community is against you. I have made suggestions before that I thought were no brainers, that have been horribly shot down hah. But in the end it's everyone's game.

Regards!
 
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