BaumShell

Adventurer
Characters
BaumShell, WhisperAllure
Platform
iOS
Last edited
Since my first post I have played almost everyday and have experienced a lot more of the game, still a giant noob though lol. I have some new observations and will reiterate some old ones in more depth. First and foremost, again I must say how wonderful this dev team is and how I am still impressed with their efforts. I think they truly care about their game a well as their community, and strive to make it great. With that said I offer the following observations, and suggestions not as criticisms, but just honest feedback. The main topics here are ideas on how to bring more variety, reduce burnout and increase player retention. (For those not wanting to read all of this you can skip to the bottom for a summary lol).

After playing a little over 2 months now I have noticed a definite theme talked about every day, all day. “Everything sucks past a certain level”. Lol seriously though this is what I hear the most from veteran players in chat. And honestly that doesn’t instill much confidence in a new’sh player 😂. It makes me feel like “gee , what’s there to look forward to other then pain and Misery” haha. I hear it daily “oh once you get to so and so place the game goes downhill, or theres nothing but stupid impossible frustrating quests pass this point on”, etc. I would just disregard this as whining usually, but it’s so many people saying the same thing.

I however like to press on and find out myself and decide whether or not it’s as bad as everyone says, and as I progress I’m starting to have to agree. This also leads me to believe that there needs to be more variety in the game as like I said the overall tone is that grinding and questing past a certain part is awful and is where most players lose heart and quit. I think when a game is well balanced you feel less of this. Sure there are always parts you wish you never had to do again but you can usually do so many other things that the whole game is riding completely on those certain parts. Which leads to my first point.

The Medallion System

At first I didn’t mind this at all and thought it was quite innovative, that is, until I realized there was no end in sight to this. It quickly becomes overly tedious, confusing, and convoluted grind you must embrace to progress. Like I mentioned most games have areas like this but you can escape them or just do them once. I feel like this system should receive a serious overhaul, and the game be expanded in this “mid game” area to alleviate some of the heaviness of this part. However since the whole foundation of the game after a certain part seems to be built upon this, I am not sure how feasible it is to do anything here. It might be to far gone and too much effort to save with a rework. Maybe just an expansion of sorts would help here. Also, eventually your left just grinding medallions in way lower areas then your current level so there really is no advantage other then the medallions themselves. The game really should change its name to “bounties and medallions”. Lol! But seriously we should be able to grind various mobs etc at any level for the experience but then again the whole system would probably collapse.

Unfortunately even though the quests pick back up mid game, They are, for the most part centered around the medallion grind, which really sucks the life out the game. If there could maybe be a separate main quest line from the medallions this part wouldn’t feels so suffocating. It really isn’t like the game I started playing and fell in love with, with its open feel and questing and crafting and villiaging ( I know it’s not a real word lol) etc. If I had known it would change completely into this bounty/medallion system I probably would have passed on it.

I also dislike the idea that my game progression is limited. If I want to put the effort in I want to be able to reap the fruit of my endeavor. But daily I am left staring at the ardent castle with nothing really to do. I have done all my bounties above and below me, I have farmed all my medallions, I have fed the charter token guy a ton of mats, I have donated a ton of materials to my village, and now my gameplay has been severely halted. I can’t go and find fun quests to do because I’ve done all at my level and doing anything below is pointless. I don’t really want to switch to other characters because I’ve lost interest in them which I’ll touch on more below. I could just keep grinding materials but eventually you need a break form that which brings me to my next point, villages.

Villages/Housing/Community Eventspace

A lot of games offer a wide variety of options for players so if one part becomes boring and monotonous they can move on to another. Villagers and Heroes does this on a small scale but I believe having a better village and housing option could help here as well. For example I used to play FFXIV online and they had a very unique and effective village system. All of the Guild homes were huge mansions located in 3 different massive villages. So you were with a lot of other guilds as well as yours in your neighborhood. This led to great sense of community which most likely isn’t attainable in V&H. However, another great thing that they had, was that within the guild mansions were not only all sorts of crafting areas but also everyone in the guild had the option to buy their own room. The rooms were instanced and you could toggle whether or not you allowed visitors. The rooms were just basic and not very large but they were completely customizable. You could craft all sorts of furniture in all sorts of styles. You could paint, change wallpaper, paneling etc. you could even change the theme of the room. It gave you a place to call home that you could retreat to when parts of the game became tedious or monotonous. You could decorate, have friends over etc. just take a break from the grind. It was wonderful.

I think the current villages could remain the way they are, but we could add the ability to enter our homes and have a large room that we could make our own. Maybe even be able to craft storage as well as furniture etc. something else to work on when we need a break from the other parts of the game. I believe I’ve heard that a village rework may be in the works but I’m not certain. Plus farming for mats and crafting furniture would be another area that could also add more balance and more variety to help alleviate the feeling of endless grind in certain areas.

I also think it’s been mentioned as well but having better guild management tools and making guilds more accessible and workable would also be greatly beneficial. Also the community is stellar at having community events which helps a lot. Having a community “event space” that offered more tools such as built in games, various events, mini games, kind of like a grinchtas lair but built only for community events. etc Maybe like a huge mansion with huge grounds etc. with event tools for the hosts, I don’t know just throwing out ideas lol. This could also tremendously helpful and be beneficial to those that host these events. Actually I think this could be the number one idea, knowing this community, in adding an element that would help not only add variety but also add longevity and retention. Of course having additional tiered dungeons with farmable gear would also help add variety.

Accounts

I mentioned this in my first post so sorry if some of this is redundant but it is still my number one issue and honestly the one that is causing me to play less and really not look forward to logging in much. I feel that I should have one account with all my characters underneath that one account. I know that @Ivar Hill suggested having different ones in different guilds from a RP perspective might be an option, but I have looked into that and for me it just doesn’t really work. Maybe it’s just what I’m used to but I don’t want to have multiple “accounts”, I want to have multiple characters. And in a sense I have multiple accounts because for the most part they are completely separate. For instance if buy a mount on an alt and delete that alt then that mount is gone so essentially that’s a separate account to me. What I spend real money on should be under one account in my opinion.

This is a hard one for me as I truly love the community and the refreshing involvement of the devs I truly appreciate, I desperately want to be able to play this game and even spend money but every time I start to I just can’t justify it as it makes zero sense for me to spend anymore as it would be extremely wasteful. For example I love having different characters and learning how each class plays etc. and feel that it’s an essential part of the game to me, as having multiple characters helps alleviate burnout. I can make them each a unique personality, look etc. But I might not even get a good feel for that class or character until they are level 30-40. And I might decide that it’s really not for me and want to scrap it and try another approach. If I decide to do that and have purchased any mounts or wardrobe etc that’s just money wasted, and of course I would want custom mounts and wardrobe for them because I am creating a personality, not having that option takes away a lot of the fun of that character. Whereas if they were account bound I would feel much better about creating new characters and experimenting with classes, giving me a much needed break at times from the grind or monotony of just one character. I currently have a cool mount on one alt that just upsets me to login and use because I want that on my other characters so I really don’t even want to login to my other alts much as they are so separate to me. I want to feel like I have one account telling multiple stories, and all the tools I need for those stories are all under one account. If I get a certain mount that’s not fitting at all for one of my characters but works perfect for another but I can’t use it that’s upsetting.

Another example is that I logged Into one of my alts to clear it out and delete it and opened an AS chest on it and received another super cool and rare mount. I was like “great lol completely useless to me”. It was very upsetting. If I have to purchase everything individually for each character then that to me is a separate account. Which having multiple accounts is a TOS violation so they are forcing me me to be illegal hahaha joking of course lol! But seriously I feel like there really is no point, for me at least, to peruse other characters, any purchase I make will be separate from all my other “accounts”, I will lose everything if I decide to delete that character, there really isn’t much incentive other then to have an additional farmer or something. This to me is huge. And like I’ve mentioned the number one thing pushing me away from this game.

So mounts, and wardrobe should 100% be account bound. But I believe that mount speed and storage space, etc should be separate per character. But I also think that they should be upgradeable within game. A lot of other games have a system where you can level mount speed within game for gold. Sure it takes a couple months and a lot of players opt to just purchase it from the store, but at least the option is there. I Think this borders on PTP models when it offers an advantage that is pay only. Having an option to grind it out is much more favorable.

Another option would be to increase the ardent society offering to include that all mounts and wardrobe be available account wide, and if you stop your membership those mounts and wardrobe default back to one character, but you don’t lose them. The current AS membership is pretty lackluster to me anyways. I enjoy the free travel and exp but other then that it’s not really a big incentive to me. The calendar rewards are actually way better in my opinion thus far and they are free. A lot of the memberships I’ve been apart of even offer a certain amount of free crowns monthly, like 500-1500 a month or other various incentives. I think AS could really benefit from a rework. Even maybe $12-$14 a month is doable, for added bonuses, maybe less for yearly subs. I currently pay $10 a month for it, and would gladly pay more if it included the above. Then only have one chest per account daily that would be useable by all characters.



Marketplace

This is lower on my list of importance but thought it worth mentioning. I feel like I could lynched on this next one lol but here goes. I love the community here and how giving and helpful they are, and the generosity of everyone. So I am not saying that any of that should change. Maybe it’s the capitalist in me, but I am the kind of person that likes to earn stuff and work hard and see the rewards of having something to work hard towards, so I rarely ask for anything I much more enjoy giving. More-so however having a marketplace where everything is free or at a set cost can really take away a vital part of the game. On a side note I think that V&H can benefit form adding other rewards type grinds as this gives people a goal to attain. I know that in other games once I’ve attained everything and things are just given to me and there’s nothing to work for, I move on, I lose interest. I want to grind out that super cool wardrobe or mount etc. Anyways back to marketplace lol, sorry got sidetracked. The market place in most games is an extremely integral part for some players as it offers them a place where they can strive and excel. Some excel at dungeons, some crafting, some ranching and farming and some selling. Without that vibrant marketplace you are taking away a portion of the game that some players connect with most. This doesn’t mean you stilll can’t be generous or giving, nobody can stop you from being that. But having a better marketplace provides yet another area of balance that people can participate in to alleviate burnout from other areas. I see new players come in all the time and they are like “what makes money what can I sell etc” and the answer is always the same “this game isn’t really like that”. I myself thought that because that’s what I’m used to. It’s a part of most games, a component that offers variety to that game other then to just grind bosses. I can however see the opposite side where the maketplace can get out of hand and some players can t afford certain things etc. again I’m not 100% sure of a solution here, or if a solution is even needed, just saying it’s defiantly an area that can offer more balance and variety. And of course I would never want to take away from such a generous community, again just throwing out ideas.

In summary,

The leveling system and grind can be overly and unnecessarily tedious and limiting and maybe nothing can be done about it presently, but having the ability to fall back, play and actually enjoy other characters with a better account wide system, and have more customization of housing and villages and guilds, marketplace, event space etc. I believe, can help a ton in fighting burnout and losing players. I believe the devs have put great effort into this game and really have done a tremendous job overall and I applaud them for their efforts thus far regardless if any changes are made.
 

Arjuna

Grand Priest
Characters
Arjuna, Lord Villian
Platform
Android
Great review and it's pretty spot on.

Unfortunately, in the end game the Devs have tripled down on the medallion system. However, it seems that they have perfected on what they did with it in the earlier levels as you can continue to use the medallions as currency for other items for a long time.

Sure, it is a grind to get to end game, but if you enjoy team efforts at elder fights and dungeons, this is where the game shines. The 95 elder/dungeon is among the best content in the game and is certainly repeatable. If that's not your jam, well it's gonna be tedious.

Even though we saw quite a lot of new content this year, it is generally painfully slow to arrive. I wouldn't hold your breath for new village arrangements or housing, unless you can hold your breath for a year. I think it was about 9 months between the last major expansion (Black Thrush), and the first part of this new one. Then, it was another 4 months for the second part to drop.

The economy is completely lackluster as you've observed. Because of the nature of the "F2P" system is this game, the Devs have gone to great extent to combat botters from harvesting the few things that are really valuable, and thus we have all of the soulbound stuff which has prevented any type of true economy to prosper.

The other gripe that you have about account wide items is actually something that they could adjust rather quickly though if they were inclined.

Despite that, it is a great game still, and I have tried others in the genre and keep coming back to this one. Nobody has nailed this style of game yet. When will we have the first true EverQuest in mobile is anyone's guess.
 
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Anthem

Bog Frog
Platform
PC
Loved reading your post BaumShell. I found your comments very well explained . I play for only a short time each day. (Wish it could be more.) I tend to see V & H from a different perspective. The one thing I do like, you don't, is the way each character has it's own life. That is something I really enjoy. I like that each of my characters has there own set of looks, mounts, friends, house and there own style. I never thought of how I play as roll playing. But I guess it is. I do like the lower price of items and don't mind that it is for only one Character.
 
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Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
A great post and I agree with almost everything that you said

For the grinding and medallion part I also had the same opinion. There are too few things to do, no alternative way to grind, etc. Most of them are because the zone are spread to thin on each level, IMO with the amount of zone that existed now + how the progression work in this game the level cap should be just around 50-60 and the grinding could be much better. The other thing about progression, I also kinda don't like it because it is very limiting, when I start playing, but over the years I have seen the developer idea for the game, they want the game to be more friendly for casual player from how they design bounties and normal mobs , rested, quest, dungeon reward, etc.

There is an option to grind out crowns later on when you're maxed out via elder levels. There also use to be way to get crowns through ultra rare zog, but they removed it due to bot issue, wish it can come back to the game again soon. The last option is to just join, the community event, such as fan fridays, sgt otters, etc where they give out crowns as price. I haven't spend money on the game yet, but I have at least 5 premium mounts on different character, all character slot unlocked, more than 20 premium vault spaces, premium tools, gnogpack, and many others premium items without paying. It's not easy and takes times, but definetly doable

Active trade and being a merchant is something I really wanted. It's not just because of how friendly the community is but also how everyone can just get almost everything without much problem, I think it's done like that to help those that just want to play solo most of the times, so kinda have to sacrifice one or the other.

Issue like the medallion grind, most if not all players hate it, but many other issue is just about preference, it is just impossible to please everyone, every decision have to sacrifice someone, and the Otter team have to stick with the one that suit them more. As of right now I think the game is targeted for casual players that play around 1-3 hours a day and I;m trying to get along with it
 
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BaumShell

Adventurer
Characters
BaumShell, WhisperAllure
Platform
iOS
Last edited
Loved reading your post BaumShell. I found your comments very well explained . I play for only a short time each day. (Wish it could be more.) I tend to see V & H from a different perspective. The one thing I do like, you don't, is the way each character has it's own life. That is something I really enjoy. I like that each of my characters has there own set of looks, mounts, friends, house and there own style.
Thank you for the kind words I very much appreciate them :). And actually what I am saying is that I really want each of my characters to have its own life, it’s own story, it’s own look, attitude etc. that’s the part that Is frustrating to me most is that in order to do that I essentially have to have separate accounts so to speak and purchase excessive gear and mounts separately etc, that will be deleted with that character. I would rather have one master stable and wardrobe to pull from if you will, where I can Create each ones story without have to spend excessively and separately. Creating individual characters Is one of the main reasons I play these games and being able to do so really helps fight burnout for me. Unfortunately for me at least that really isn’t an option here. In so many other games it is setup that all you mounts and wardrobe etc are under one account And I’m probably just use to that lol I’m trying to like this system I really am just finding it hard sorry lol! But again thank you for your kindness!


The other thing about progression, I also kinda don't like it because it is very limiting, when I start playing, but over the years I have seen the developer idea for the game, they want the game to be more friendly for casual player from how they design bounties and normal mobs , rested, quest, dungeon reward, etc.
Thank you as well for your response! I agree with everything but this. I have heard this many times that the devs want a game that appeals to casual players, if that is the case I think they missed it. This mid game grind is anything but casual. In fact I have a couple friends who I have tried to get into the game who are very much “casual gamers” and both are like “we love the concept but waaay too intense for us, and not many options for us past a certain point, we’re just not that hardcore”. At first I believe it starts out very balanced and casual until a certain point then it becomes very much not casual. In fact the people I see at the top are definitely not casual gamers, I see them playing 8-12 hours a day everyday. I think it takes very hardcore mindset to persevere through a large portion of this game which is anything but casual. Unless casual translates to endlessly grinding medallions then sure it’s pretty spot on then. I’ve seen what I’ve been told are respected veteran players walking away because the “casual” grind was just to much after awhile.

This is the point I was trying make that they should expand the mid game, to be more player friendly, across the board. And to offer more outlets to help alleviate burnout from endless grinding in one area. Villages, ranching, questing, events, better guild tools, farming, crafting, selling, farm plot expansion, other characters, all can be better developed to provide a more well rounded balanced game that can appeal to a wider range of players and are key in my opinion, to providing longevity and retention in game. These are the points I was trying to make. If you can’t change the mid game grind then expand all these other areas to offer a more balanced game. The game has a tremendous veteran community that is just absolutely wonderful to me but I would also like to see the ability to pull new players in and keep them and turn them into veterans as well, I believe the game is worth it, which is why I am even bothering to write these ridiculously long winded posts haha 😂. Like I’ve said from the start I think it’s a great game, great devs, great community and I am thankful for finding it! Anyways thank you and everyone else for taking the time to read and to comment!
 

KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
I do feel that medallions should be removed from Traven and Pyrron content at this point. They serve their purpose during end-game, but are just a needless obstacle for mid-game content. There's no reason to put bottlenecks in level 45 content when the cap is 95.
 

Math Fish

Squirrel
Characters
Math Fish (M Hunter), Shama Fisha (W Shaman), Accursed Angelfish (S Priest)
Platform
Steam
I would rather have one master stable and wardrobe to pull from if you will, where I can Create each ones story without have to spend excessively and separately. Creating individual characters Is one of the main reasons I play these games and being able to do so really helps fight burnout for me. Unfortunately for me at least that really isn’t an option here.
How about this ... hear me out ... we bind mounts and cosmetic-type items to the character slot itself, not not character. Eh? Ehhh? :)

Thank you as well for your response! I agree with everything but this. I have heard this many times that the devs want a game that appeals to casual players, if that is the case I think they missed it. This mid game grind is anything but casual. In fact I have a couple friends who I have tried to get into the game who are very much “casual gamers” and both are like “we love the concept but waaay too intense for us, and not many options for us past a certain point, we’re just not that hardcore”. At first I believe it starts out very balanced and casual until a certain point then it becomes very much not casual. In fact the people I see at the top are definitely not casual gamers, I see them playing 8-12 hours a day everyday. I think it takes very hardcore mindset to persevere through a large portion of this game which is anything but casual. Unless casual translates to endlessly grinding medallions then sure it’s pretty spot on then. I’ve seen what I’ve been told are respected veteran players walking away because the “casual” grind was just to much after awhile.
I feel like it would be good to consider splitting the content at a certain point where you would essentially have 2 (or more) branching content strands:
  1. The casual experience where everyone can continue progression comfortably all the way to level 95 (with some sort of throttling mechanism to prevent the try-hards from leveling to 95 in a week or two). The level of difficulty would be akin to, say, The Red Cloister (for groups) or the Shadow areas (for single enemies). The rewards for playing this would be identical to what it currently is. Everything could be soloed except Elders, which would should be done with perhaps 2-3 people (all the way to 95).
  2. The hardcore experience where players could play more advanced content such as dungeons, advanced Elder Bosses, more interesting mobs, grindy medallion and key stuff, etc. The rewards for playing this would be more combat-oriented (better gear, pots, buffs, etc), nothing crazy like Sockets, exclusive mounts, or anything of that sort.
  3. (I'll discuss later) The villager experience, where the focus is more on gathering, crafting, supporting other players, and so forth. There would be little to no combat required to fully progress to a maxed out villager. Rewards would be villager-based (Animal Treats, rare gathers, motes, mats, etc).
 
Reactions: BaumShell
  • Likex1
Characters
Tiffa, Ruby Wolf
Platform
Android, PC
I do feel that medallions should be removed from Traven and Pyrron content at this point. They serve their purpose during end-game, but are just a needless obstacle for mid-game content. There's no reason to put bottlenecks in level 45 content when the cap is 95.
Or at least have the Medallions be able to be used for other things than just buying keys or other medallions. Having a store for medallions where you could purchice Potions, wardrobe pieces, mounts, etc... or having the medallions being used in along side or in place of materials in Village projects.
Once you have gone through zones like Travern Isles and Pyrron and gotten allthe keys then you never need any medallions that you recollect, every time you rebirth, so having a way to spend or use the zones would help make the grind after rebirth more fun and less of a hastle.
 

BaumShell

Adventurer
Characters
BaumShell, WhisperAllure
Platform
iOS
Last edited
Or at least have the Medallions be able to be used for other things than just buying keys or other medallions. Having a store for medallions where you could purchice Potions, wardrobe pieces, mounts, etc... or having the medallions being used in along side or in place of materials in Village projects.
Once you have gone through zones like Travern Isles and Pyrron and gotten allthe keys then you never need any medallions that you recollect, every time you rebirth, so having a way to spend or use the zones would help make the grind after rebirth more fun and less of a hastle.
LOVE ❤ this idea. It gives you something to work towards at least, other then endless, mind numbing grinding. The game needs more fun things that can be attained though grinding and this is a great place to implement that! It provides a bit of the variety I was talking about where the grind can be expanded into other fun areas or repurposed for multiple things not just one narrow path to the next mind numbing grind. This would bring a much needed freshness and excitement to this otherwise dreary part of the game. You could even expand it further to say that Ardent Society Members get an additional 10%-20% additional medallion drops as well.
Great Idea!!!! 👍 You get a gold star ⭐ LOL!
 
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Seawolf

Servant of Mallok
Platform
Android
Or at least have the Medallions be able to be used for other things than just buying keys or other medallions. Having a store for medallions where you could purchice Potions, wardrobe pieces, mounts, etc... or having the medallions being used in along side or in place of materials in Village projects.
Once you have gone through zones like Travern Isles and Pyrron and gotten allthe keys then you never need any medallions that you recollect, every time you rebirth, so having a way to spend or use the zones would help make the grind after rebirth more fun and less of a hastle.
You're in luck. When you get to the 90 + medallions (called X medallions) they CAN be used to purchase exclusive mounts, great looking visual effects toys, and even pets! While the cost for some is extremely high (looking at you 8800 medallion mount), they are all fun stuff that add a unique flavor to the end game. The mounts range from downright beautiful artwork with vibrant unique colors (shadenor mount) to the extremely funny/ridiculous zombie mounts (you ride on a zombies shoulders). I'm currently halfway to getting my first faction mount and I couldn't be more excited.
(X = reputation/faction type. Death, Shade, Blood, and Cinder). I've seen one person on US3 that has already earned one of them. (Blood hound).

P.S. Just in case anyone is not aware, using a bounty badge will give you twice the number of medallions normally earned from a bounty.
 
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