IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Last edited
Other than during the small period of time with the bugged hunter feats after the first mana patch, when has hunters stealing aggro ever been an issue?
And any hunters complaining about warriors keeping aggro is more a mental issue on their end rather than something that needs an in-game balance/fix :p
Range fighters being OP is not a new occurrence and it has been that way for years, but few if any warriors bothered to complain and just tagged along behind the boss when range fighters kept taking aggro. Then Shaman was introduced and they then became the tanks.

Most range players only see what affects them directly and some do complain loudly and constantly, which usually results in buff's to that class or more nerfs to the warrior. I don't know if you realized that range fighters rarely if ever died in solo combat, but that buffed up defense was also a buff which hurt warriors. It made range fighters almost immortal and warriors unnecessary.

So really, this balancing is putting back what the characters had to begin with, both good and bad.
 
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Squonk

Master Villager
Characters
Squonk, Auburn Bow, Morgawa, Auburn Shade, Auburn Flame, Auburn Assassin, Medusala, Auburn Saint, +2
Platform
  1. PC
So really, this balancing is putting back what the characters had to begin with, both good and bad.

So you agree that this patch is a step backwards :D (kidding!)
 
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Renaiss

Reader
Interestingly, all the class animosity is going in one direction, and it isn't hunters or other ranged players complaining about warriors.
 
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Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Glacier, Scab, Drakzy, Ground Pounder.
Platform
  1. PC
There would still be people upset because of any change.
But I have a question for you... Given that hunters DPS was so high, didn't you notice warriors constantly running after the boss's after range fighters used those big feats?
How would you propose warriors be able to control a group fight? Because as range fighters DPS grew along with their protection warriors did not.

I also have to mention here that since I started playing in 2011, any time the warriors were able to keep and hold aggro, range fighters were all upset and kept saying the warriors were OP.
So how do the devs balance this for fairness?
well thats as simple as adjusting the feats/talents that grant aggro to the warriors they dont need to increase warriors dps just their threat percentage they produce
 

Ellusive

Priest
Characters
Ellusive
Platform
  1. iOS
Thanks for posting the feedback. We just pushed a build live today that boosts some spells/feats/talents. We would have pushed it sooner, but pushing builds live involves a fair amount of not only dev time, but testing, and work with the Apple and Google playstores.

We appreciate general feedback like yours, as well as more detailed info on specific changes- all are welcome.

As posted in the Patch notes, we will continue to make changes as needed... a boost to Holy Priest is already in the works.

There was a concern raised in this thread that we were neglecting Housing in favor of the class balance/mana changes. That's not the case. The Housing work was done independently, and would not have benefited by moving more otters over to it. Housing should be live soon.

To everyone in the community, please continue to share your advice and critiques of Villagers & Heroes.

Best,
Damon
Thank you and the Otter team for continuing to listen to concerns and make improvements. I know it can’t be easy and I just wanted to say we appreciate your efforts.
 
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IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
My hunter does die in solo content, especially if I am not careful. How is this information tracked?
I speak from my personal observation, I do see it more in group fights but I also have watched them in solo action. In fact I am amazed when in a party how the range fighters rarely lose any hp.
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
well thats as simple as adjusting the feats/talents that grant aggro to the warriors they dont need to increase warriors dps just their threat percentage they produce
I know people keep suggesting that, but I am not convinced it's doable to separate aggro and dps. But that would be a good question to ask the devs I'd think.
 
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Kitty

Villager
I speak from my personal observation, I do see it more in group fights but I also have watched them in solo action. In fact I am amazed when in a party how the range fighters rarely lose any hp.
You do understand that if you are there watching it's not solo, right? The only way anyone can watch a solo fight is if it were recorded. I don't know of anyone who records their deaths and failures for public display, although I'm sure there are a few who would for instructive purposes. You can't possibly think your limited personal observations are representative of the entire hunter class?
 
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IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Last edited
You do understand that if you are there watching it's not solo, right? The only way anyone can watch a solo fight is if it were recorded. I don't know of anyone who records their deaths and failures for public display, although I'm sure there are a few who would for instructive purposes. You can't possibly think your limited personal observations are representative of the entire hunter class?
I do see it more in group fights but I also have watched them in solo action.
I'm not sure what you mean, if I am watching and not in combat or in a party, it is solo. But yes, I have observed combat since 2011 and watched as the adjustments and changes were made over all those years and all the changes and adjustments are exactly how the imbalance in classes started. I don't think 12 years of observing combat both in parties and just standing (not in parties) and watching combat is "limited personal observations". I have a holy hybrid priest and yes, I've had years of watching players in combat (usually watching their hp so I could heal them). With a lot of the changes early on nothing changed, the tank kept aggro and the range fighters didn't need healing. But as the range fighters dmg increased, they regularly took aggro from the tanks but they still didn't need healing.

People complained that they could not solo boss's that they needed more defenses, or the warriors were OP and so the back and forth began.... Range fighters complained that they wanted survivability increased which along with their superior feats made them mostly invincible. (And I am talking over the years, not just this update or the mana update). All classes then became tanks... except those meant to be tanks. Then Shaman was added and they also became tanks. Like I said in another post, "Maybe all group content should be done away with and just let everyone have exactly the same feats so they can solo all."
Yes I understand that those who were almost invincible now are not. I do understand your view, been there a long time ago.

As was said when this update was implemented, this was the first step to rebalancing all classes. They sought input after having tried and tested on test server and now sought response from the live characters. Not from raids, not from the rift, because they are way different, but the devs want to know how adjustments can be made to your class.
 
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IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
I don't think I mentioned I do have 9 toons and not one is a lightning warrior. I've not had one for around 3 years, I switched over to fury. My other toons are a holy hybrid priest, wizards, shaman and hunters. So I have experience with each class both on live and test.

Mostly I just wanted to give you all some history of how things happened and that as Majenta said, if you give a strong argument and back it up with some information, things could be adjusted. Likely not to where they were before but probably acceptable. But just complaining how much you hate it all without giving specifics won't be any help at all.
 

Elijah Lin

Lumineer
Characters
Fairy Prince Eli
Platform
  1. iOS
From this feedback it seems like the issues surrounding Holy are due to the new 'random' effects (Bless and the Blessings that are applied from shields). While the goal of the new Bless was to make it a more useful tool with stronger bonuses and the chance to stack multiple blessings at a time with Divine Inspiration, if players would rather have the old version back then it can be reverted in an upcoming build along with the removal of the random shield effects.

Well, V, I do think, we all appreciate the option. But personally, its really not my cup of tea, per say, but I’ve seen players who do play healers stick with it and while others, who were Shadow/hybrid, now jumping on the H.Pri bandwagon. And now, Ive jumped over to S.Pri 🤭

I dont really have too much to say about the changes (especially with holy) now seeing how its used… but I do want to see how it changes all the way to the end before I decide if I will be fully holy again. 🙏 Thanks!
 
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Allison Wonderland

Priestess
Royal Guardian
Platform
  1. PC
So how do the devs balance this for fairness?
I didn't think all the classes were supposed to be balanced. I thought the purpose for having different classes is just that, having different classes with each class having different strengths and weaknesses. When talking about balance what is actually being discussed? Damage, attack, defense, threat, survivability are only a few traits that could indicate a difference that could be balanced. If all classes are going to have equal abilities in everything why have different classes?
 
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Sumi

Arch Wizard
Characters
Sumia, Sumie, Sumii, Sumio, Sumiu
Platform
  1. iOS
  2. PC
I mean, before the update, let's look at holy vs water.

Holy:
healed more (instant single target, instant aoe, over time single target, over time aoe, single target shield, aoe shield), did more damage (single and aoe, reflection without needing a glyph), could significantly increase defense of allies/self, notably increase ability powers of allies/self, could cure allies/self (aoe), increase to 100% the crit rate of allies/self, and more than 1 holy can play and still each be effective

Water:
healed less (over time single target, instant single target on huge cooldown, over time aoe smaller radius, instant fake aoe (only works aoe if allies have your over time heals)), less damage (only 2 single target spells, a very weak aoe spell with long cooldown, reflection through buffed blasting so requires glyph), can cure allies (single target only), and only 1 can be effective at a time (more than 1 shaman and some cant help much)

Water? no buffs, no shields, only 1 can work at a time, lower damage, weaker healing,

. . . that's why it's important the classes are balanced with other classes in mind. no it's not called 'balancing for pvp' it's called 'balancing'. if one class is clearly the better option, then why play the other one. For fun? For aesthetics? Why not for fun and able to be useful at the same time?

Classes need to be balanced with comparisons of effectiveness with other classes.

Strengths of healers:
survivability, heals, support for allie's through heals and very commonly through buffs

Weaknesses of healers:
commonly have a lower max health than tanks, do less dps than dps classes.

Changes to holy:
- increased shielding power more than the nerf to cure so net healing power increase (and the mass heal cooldown increase didn't really do anything, you can still keep a 99% uptime with it, it just doesn't refresh super early so you don't waste mana casting it too soon)
- significantly increased ability to buff allies (although everyone agrees the bless buffs could be more powerful, they're pretty weak rn)
- slightly decreased dps (which is increasing a little more with each patch)

It's not a DPS class though ppl. it's a healer.
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
I thought the purpose for having different classes is just that, having different classes with each class having different strengths and weaknesses.
Yes, that's balance. Every class is different, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.
When talking about balance what is actually being discussed?
For instance, (like it used to be) Lightning Warrior is a tank and should be able to grab and hold aggro and attention of the boss with ok dmg, superior threat and superior defense. Hunter and wizard always were glass cannons. They had the "kapow" that would take out the boss but low defenses, which is why they were the "squishies". Holy had some dmg but healed the best.
If all classes are going to have equal abilities in everything why have different classes?

Exactly. But that was pretty much what happened over the years. Everyone got more more more, well almost everyone.
 
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IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
I mean, before the update, let's look at holy vs water.

Holy:
healed more (instant single target, instant aoe, over time single target, over time aoe, single target shield, aoe shield), did more damage (single and aoe, reflection without needing a glyph), could significantly increase defense of allies/self, notably increase ability powers of allies/self, could cure allies/self (aoe), increase to 100% the crit rate of allies/self, and more than 1 holy can play and still each be effective

Water:
healed less (over time single target, instant single target on huge cooldown, over time aoe smaller radius, instant fake aoe (only works aoe if allies have your over time heals)), less damage (only 2 single target spells, a very weak aoe spell with long cooldown, reflection through buffed blasting so requires glyph), can cure allies (single target only), and only 1 can be effective at a time (more than 1 shaman and some cant help much)

Water? no buffs, no shields, only 1 can work at a time, lower damage, weaker healing,

. . . that's why it's important the classes are balanced with other classes in mind. no it's not called 'balancing for pvp' it's called 'balancing'. if one class is clearly the better option, then why play the other one. For fun? For aesthetics? Why not for fun and able to be useful at the same time?

Classes need to be balanced with comparisons of effectiveness with other classes.

Strengths of healers:
survivability, heals, support for allie's through heals and very commonly through buffs

Weaknesses of healers:
commonly have a lower max health than tanks, do less dps than dps classes.

Changes to holy:
- increased shielding power more than the nerf to cure so net healing power increase (and the mass heal cooldown increase didn't really do anything, you can still keep a 99% uptime with it, it just doesn't refresh super early so you don't waste mana casting it too soon)
- significantly increased ability to buff allies (although everyone agrees the bless buffs could be more powerful, they're pretty weak rn)
- slightly decreased dps (which is increasing a little more with each patch)

It's not a DPS class though ppl. it's a healer.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Squonk

Master Villager
Characters
Squonk, Auburn Bow, Morgawa, Auburn Shade, Auburn Flame, Auburn Assassin, Medusala, Auburn Saint, +2
Platform
  1. PC
Glad some are enjoying the balances - still feels meh to me after the updates so will keep the holy toon retired and focus on others that are still fun.
 
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Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Glacier, Scab, Drakzy, Ground Pounder.
Platform
  1. PC
I know people keep suggesting that, but I am not convinced it's doable to separate aggro and dps. But that would be a good question to ask the devs I'd think.
why is it not doable i mean games have only been doing it since gaming began even pen and paper managed to do it.
 

Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Glacier, Scab, Drakzy, Ground Pounder.
Platform
  1. PC
I mean, before the update, let's look at holy vs water.

Holy:
healed more (instant single target, instant aoe, over time single target, over time aoe, single target shield, aoe shield), did more damage (single and aoe, reflection without needing a glyph), could significantly increase defense of allies/self, notably increase ability powers of allies/self, could cure allies/self (aoe), increase to 100% the crit rate of allies/self, and more than 1 holy can play and still each be effective

Water:
healed less (over time single target, instant single target on huge cooldown, over time aoe smaller radius, instant fake aoe (only works aoe if allies have your over time heals)), less damage (only 2 single target spells, a very weak aoe spell with long cooldown, reflection through buffed blasting so requires glyph), can cure allies (single target only), and only 1 can be effective at a time (more than 1 shaman and some cant help much)

Water? no buffs, no shields, only 1 can work at a time, lower damage, weaker healing,

. . . that's why it's important the classes are balanced with other classes in mind. no it's not called 'balancing for pvp' it's called 'balancing'. if one class is clearly the better option, then why play the other one. For fun? For aesthetics? Why not for fun and able to be useful at the same time?

Classes need to be balanced with comparisons of effectiveness with other classes.

Strengths of healers:
survivability, heals, support for allie's through heals and very commonly through buffs

Weaknesses of healers:
commonly have a lower max health than tanks, do less dps than dps classes.

Changes to holy:
- increased shielding power more than the nerf to cure so net healing power increase (and the mass heal cooldown increase didn't really do anything, you can still keep a 99% uptime with it, it just doesn't refresh super early so you don't waste mana casting it too soon)
- significantly increased ability to buff allies (although everyone agrees the bless buffs could be more powerful, they're pretty weak rn)
- slightly decreased dps (which is increasing a little more with each patch)

It's not a DPS class though ppl. it's a healer.
i agree with all except the very end comment your right its not a dps class but neither is a tank so if the tanks can do a lot od dps then why not priest like i said before if one class is forced to be traditional then you should force all classes to be traditional
 
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Massakari

Shaman
Characters
Massakari
Platform
  1. Android
i agree with all except the very end comment your right its not a dps class but neither is a tank so if the tanks can do a lot od dps then why not priest like i said before if one class is forced to be traditional then you should force all classes to be traditional
Not to add more controversy and by all means not complaining about my earth shaman but since the patch I’ve literally banked all of my mana potions I have no need for them whatsoever , all the while I’m spamming my feats right as their CDs end. Im also consistently top 3 on the DPS leaderboard, and while I think that’s awesome for my class, it isn’t exactly balanced. But if anyone was expecting perfection straight out of the gate, you’ll clearly be disappointed. I just hope folks remain patient and give the Devs time to do what we know they can and will do. I usually don’t post on things like this but I just had to add my 2 cents and ask that everyone have faith that it’ll all get worked out in due time!
 
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