Marksman Hunter Changes

[Valkeri]

I have not seen any posts about this sub classes changes yet so I will start a new thread for it. I was one of those rare few that loved their Marksman, and now… not so much. I knew when i created her that I wasn’t going to be top damage, i loved my stuns and my talents. I very rarely ran low on mana because i used a mana build (Resourcefulness) and didn’t use mana pots except on a rare occasion.
Issues:
1. Very first talent made Crippling shot a stun has been taken away
2. Dash was moved to the Survival taking it from the Marksman tree, so now its not effected by the marksman skill power (capped 15%)
3. Murder, this used to reset feats, even with feats resetting I never ran low on mana, I wasnt top damage so I wasn’t over powered….
4. Steady - once a AOE buff for all, now a self buff gets removed by any mob damage. Since most bosses have some form of AOE this is useless.
5. Everyone misses the “show them how”

It seems the build is to give more damage so maybe that is a plus, but at this point I will join the majority of hunters who are Nature since my Marksman has been changed so severely. I hope this opens a topic, curious where everyone else lands on this.

Valkyrie / Nephesh

 

[IrishElf]

There are changes coming that are on test right now for hunters, I cannot tell you exactly what they are but watch for notes to be posted. As soon as testing is done, they will be part of the next update.

 

[Shyama]

2. Dash was moved to the Survival taking it from the Marksman tree, so now its not effected by the marksman skill power (capped 15%)
3. Murder, this used to reset feats, even with feats resetting I never ran low on mana, I wasnt top damage so I wasn’t over powered….

These 2 points particularly... my least favorite part about the Dash change is that it went from needing 10 talent points to 20 points to get it. And I haven't played my marx a ton (lvl 60 almost all from running EZs, no rb) but I thought it was kinda fun trying to time Murder just right to get that reset. It was so satisfying to see that flash & have everything reset for my next fight.

 

[Stella StormSong]

I feel like I dont know what MM's identity is anymore. The Dash and Stuns were what made it special; it now seems completely lackluster.
I am eager to see how the build is going to be amended. To be continued..

 

[Renaiss]

I know it's silly, but I chose to make both my main & first alt hunters: I liked my nature hunter & wanted to see how marksman differed. I haven't played since the so-called mana build (I'm on hiatus from the game), but the 2 subclasses of hunters were very different. Renaiss was better for solo play, especially in one-on-one combat, but AutumnFall was better in groups & at dealing with multiple targets. Honestly, it seems like they changed hunters, especially marksman, just for the sake of making changes because most of what they did has little/nothing to do with mana.

There are changes coming that are on test right now for hunters, I cannot tell you exactly what they are but watch for notes to be posted. As soon as testing is done, they will be part of the next update.

Yeah, they didn't ruin or nerf nature hunters enough, lol.

 

[Majenta]

Yeah, they didn't ruin or nerf nature hunters enough, lol.

Since you have repeatedly pointed out you are not playing the game currently, I assume you are unaware that thanks to a bug, nature hunters are currently massively overpowered. When you can one shot an event zone elder, that's not exactly a nerf.

 

[Renaiss]

Since you have repeatedly pointed out you are not playing the game currently, I assume you are unaware that thanks to a bug, nature hunters are currently massively overpowered. When you can one shot an event zone elder, that's not exactly a nerf.

I was aware of the bug with nature hunters. The bug is clearly something that needs to be fixed ASAP, particularly since it is making it difficult to determine how the mana build has affected the damage from other classes. My concern (which has been expressed elsewhere by others) is that they'll do more than simply fix the bug. Even when I was playing actively (prior to March 12th), I didn't do much combat outside of the EZ and I never looked at the damage charts, so I still would've needed to rely on what others are saying to fully understand how this mana build has affected each of my toons. (I'm sure I would have noticed the nature bug though: it would've been really handy with those darn zings!)

 

[SprigOfHalcyon]

5. Everyone misses the “show them how”

Yeah, I miss the old show them how that gave a % boost (not the haste/expertise boosting one). That was really nice for parties.

 

[Ellusive]

Marksman used to be my favorite subclass but now it’s nature lite, it’s hard to tell the overall damage done to the marksman until the kinks are pulled out of the “mana build” but in my opinion you have destroyed the class by eliminating the best parts.
1. The stun from crippling shot was necessary for the class in close quarters, I know concussion shot is still available but a backup for your main target is necessary.
2. Murder no longer resets your feats. This was what gave the marksman the ability to take on groups of mobs, and it was fun to try and get your timing right.
3. Dash was effected by marksman skill power, now it’s just a survival talent we share with nature. I never bought steady and never wanted it.
4. Something that effects all classes.
You mention that mob stuns were also reduced in time, you however do not mention that multiple mobs can just keep stunning you over and over because we do not carry the same immunity that mobs do after the initial stun, I stun a mob and I have to wait until the timer has elapsed to try and stun again and my stun gets less potent every time I use it.

Team Otter has done a wonderful job at building a community full of fun and interesting characters, that community obviously loved the game the way it was, I hate to see it torn down by one or two people’s perception of how classes “should” be.

 

[SprigOfHalcyon]

I feel like I dont know what MM's identity is anymore. The Dash and Stuns were what made it special; it now seems completely lackluster.
I am eager to see how the build is going to be amended. To be continued..

Yeah, is it supposed to be concentrated fire on one target with gradually increasing damage now?

 

[V]

2. Murder no longer resets your feats. This was what gave the marksman the ability to take on groups of mobs, and it was fun to try and get your timing right.

The old Murder reduced feat cooldowns by 100%, the updated one reduces them by 30%. So the mechanic still exists and the fun of trying to get your timing right also still exists. The main difference is that the cooldown reduction isn't as powerful as before.

3. Dash was effected by marksman skill power, now it’s just a survival talent we share with nature. I never bought steady and never wanted it.

Dash was not removed it was only moved, so it is still possible to acquire it.

4. Something that affects all classes.
You mention that mob stuns were also reduced in time, you however do not mention that multiple mobs can just keep stunning you over and over because we do not carry the same immunity that mobs do after the initial stun, I stun a mob and I have to wait until the timer has elapsed to try and stun again and my stun gets less potent every time I use it.

The only change to mob stuns was their duration, not their frequency. If a mob was stunning you back to back before, it will do the same now, but the duration of the stun may be lower depending on the spell that it used.

 

[V]

Yeah, is it supposed to be concentrated fire on one target with gradually increasing damage now?

The idea is that Marksman should have powerful single-target damage as well as support options through debuffs (their prior buffs were de-emphasized and their debuffs were emphasized).

A quick summary of the changes:

• Crippling Shot's mana cost has been decreased from 200 to 150.
  • 200 felt too high
• Steady's mana cost has been decreased from 350 to 250.
  • This is due to Steady changing from a group-buff that affected masteries to a self-buff that boosted damage and could cut mana costs
• Preparedness mana cost has been increased from 100 to 150.
  • Preparedness received some additional perks
• Concussion Shot's stun duration reduced from 7s to 5s.
  • Part of the over-arching stun reduction. This also means that enemies that use Concussion Shot will have a stun duration nerf (less time being stunned for players as well).
• Steady is now a Marksman feat. It boosts single target marksman shot damage by 25% while granting them a 25% chance to waive their mana cost. Taking damage will end the effect.
  • The previous steady boosted masteries and was a one-click-forget type spell which didn't feel too engaging, nor was its bonus that powerful. The new iteration has a bit of risk -reward involved where the marksman can boost their damage and cut their mana costs for as long as they can avoid taking damage. If this is near impossible to maintain though, then it can be looked into.
• Preparedness is now a Marksman feat. It allows you to ignore 15% of enemy resistances for 15s and increases the damage of your next 3 marksman shots by 25% to enemies above 75% health. Gain double the charges when activated while out of combat.
  • This can be used as an opener self-buff in-between tough fights or during elders to cut through some of their resistance.
• Debilitating Shots now procs off of single target attacks and no longer slows enemies. Instead, its damage debuff has been doubled and additionally reduces the target's critical chance.
  • Self-explanatory
• Lethality now increases your critical damage by 5% whenever you critically strike with a single-target, instant damaging marksman feat. This effect can stack up to 5 times.
  • The previous version converted mastery into brutality. This version bypasses brutality and raises critical damage directly. Perhaps the duration of the effect makes it too difficult to maintain though.
• Show Them How is now Marked for Death: Slowing, Crippling and Wounding shot have a chance to mark an enemy for 15 seconds. Subsequent attacks you deal to the enemy build stacks on the enemy. Each stack reduces their resistances by 1% up to 30%.
  • In the next patch this will be bumped up to 2% per stack. This provides Marksman a way to counter affixes such as Steeled and Arcane for themselves and their allies.
• Vengeance's cooldown reduction has been reduced to 30%.
  • Either this number can be bumped up to 40% or it can return to its old state but be limited solely to marksman spells or it can be reverted to its previous version entirely but with a cooldown attached. Being able to instantly refresh all spells, including trinkets per kill was simply too frequent and made everything else tricky to balance.
• Sap now enables players to earn a stack of Sap for every debuff applied to an enemy. At 10 stacks, players gain Proliferate,, causing their Crippling Shot, Slowing Shot and Wounding Shot to hit all enemies near their target.
  • This was meant to provide Marksman with a way to debuff multiple enemies in one go. For example, they can slow, wound or cripple a pack of enemies in Pyrron. But if players prefer to stun a single enemy rather than debuff a group then that can be considered. Frankly I felt this provided greater utility and choice to the marksman (how do I want to debuff this pack of enemies?) and helped them in their AoE department which was a bit lacking. There is an incoming change in the next patch which allows the Proliferate effect to last until used which should make this more useful and easier to trigger.
• Deadly Aim now grants a stack upon casting a marksman shot, up to 10 stacks. Using True Shot consumes the stacks and compounds its damage by 20% per stack.
  • This effect compounds, so at 10 stacks it is not simply multiplying True Shot's damage by 200%. It is multiplying its damage by 1.2 per charge.

 

[SprigOfHalcyon]

• Vengeance's cooldown reduction has been reduced to 30%.
  • Either this number can be bumped up to 40% or it can return to its old state but be limited solely to marksman spells or it can be reverted to its previous version entirely but with a cooldown attached. Being able to instantly refresh all spells, including trinkets per kill was simply too frequent and made everything else tricky to balance.

Ah, yes, this was a strange ability previously. For solo bounty-running, it was pretty sweet/crazy Sort of OP if you got it to work, but kind of hard since you'd accidentally kill stuff with some other feat and not vengence, but could just use brutal force crippling shot over and over. But.... for group play, it was nearly useless as the chance that murder kills a mob in a large group is low and specifically timing it to do so intentionally is also almost impossible. "Hey guys can you please stop killing all the monsters when they hit 0.5% so I can finish them all off with murder, thanks!" hehe.

 

[V]

Ah, yes, this was a strange ability previously. For solo bounty-running, it was pretty sweet/crazy Sort of OP if you got it to work, but kind of hard since you'd accidentally kill stuff with some other feat and not vengence, but could just use brutal force crippling shot over and over. But.... for group play, it was nearly useless as the chance that murder kills a mob in a large group is low and specifically timing it to do so intentionally is also almost impossible. "Hey guys can you please stop killing all the monsters when they hit 0.5% so I can finish them all off with murder, thanks!" hehe.

Definitely open to making improvements to it so that it can be useful for solo and group-play. For example, hitting an enemy with Murder whose health is below X% health reduces your active cooldowns by Y%. This could then be applicable for both solo and group-play. Granted, the cooldown reduction would have to be toned down due to the effect being easier to trigger. This is just an example and I'm sure there are better solutions out there other than reverting it to the old iteration and reintroducing the issues mentioned in your post.

 

[Ellusive]

I didn’t find it difficult to reset my feats in group play.
Marksman was my main and my wife and I lead 15 party raids into the h30s on our two marksman, we were very successful and it was a lot of fun.

Why would I even bother with a feat that ends as soon as I take damage (steady) have you ever not taken damage from an enemy area spell?
I would like dash put back as a marksman feat.

 

[Stella StormSong]

The idea is that Marksman should have powerful single-target damage as well as support options through debuffs (their prior buffs were de-emphasized and their debuffs were emphasized).

A quick summary of the changes:

• Crippling Shot's mana cost has been decreased from 200 to 150.
  • 200 felt too high
• Steady's mana cost has been decreased from 350 to 250.
  • This is due to Steady changing from a group-buff that affected masteries to a self-buff that boosted damage and could cut mana costs
• Preparedness mana cost has been increased from 100 to 150.
  • Preparedness received some additional perks
• Concussion Shot's stun duration reduced from 7s to 5s.
  • Part of the over-arching stun reduction. This also means that enemies that use Concussion Shot will have a stun duration nerf (less time being stunned for players as well).
• Steady is now a Marksman feat. It boosts single target marksman shot damage by 25% while granting them a 25% chance to waive their mana cost. Taking damage will end the effect.
  • The previous steady boosted masteries and was a one-click-forget type spell which didn't feel too engaging, nor was its bonus that powerful. The new iteration has a bit of risk -reward involved where the marksman can boost their damage and cut their mana costs for as long as they can avoid taking damage. If this is near impossible to maintain though, then it can be looked into.
• Preparedness is now a Marksman feat. It allows you to ignore 15% of enemy resistances for 15s and increases the damage of your next 3 marksman shots by 25% to enemies above 75% health. Gain double the charges when activated while out of combat.
  • This can be used as an opener self-buff in-between tough fights or during elders to cut through some of their resistance.
• Debilitating Shots now procs off of single target attacks and no longer slows enemies. Instead, its damage debuff has been doubled and additionally reduces the target's critical chance.
  • Self-explanatory
• Lethality now increases your critical damage by 5% whenever you critically strike with a single-target, instant damaging marksman feat. This effect can stack up to 5 times.
  • The previous version converted mastery into brutality. This version bypasses brutality and raises critical damage directly. Perhaps the duration of the effect makes it too difficult to maintain though.
• Show Them How is now Marked for Death: Slowing, Crippling and Wounding shot have a chance to mark an enemy for 15 seconds. Subsequent attacks you deal to the enemy build stacks on the enemy. Each stack reduces their resistances by 1% up to 30%.
  • In the next patch this will be bumped up to 2% per stack. This provides Marksman a way to counter affixes such as Steeled and Arcane for themselves and their allies.
• Vengeance's cooldown reduction has been reduced to 30%.
  • Either this number can be bumped up to 40% or it can return to its old state but be limited solely to marksman spells or it can be reverted to its previous version entirely but with a cooldown attached. Being able to instantly refresh all spells, including trinkets per kill was simply too frequent and made everything else tricky to balance.
• Sap now enables players to earn a stack of Sap for every debuff applied to an enemy. At 10 stacks, players gain Proliferate,, causing their Crippling Shot, Slowing Shot and Wounding Shot to hit all enemies near their target.
  • This was meant to provide Marksman with a way to debuff multiple enemies in one go. For example, they can slow, wound or cripple a pack of enemies in Pyrron. But if players prefer to stun a single enemy rather than debuff a group then that can be considered. Frankly I felt this provided greater utility and choice to the marksman (how do I want to debuff this pack of enemies?) and helped them in their AoE department which was a bit lacking. There is an incoming change in the next patch which allows the Proliferate effect to last until used which should make this more useful and easier to trigger.
• Deadly Aim now grants a stack upon casting a marksman shot, up to 10 stacks. Using True Shot consumes the stacks and compounds its damage by 20% per stack.
  • This effect compounds, so at 10 stacks it is not simply multiplying True Shot's damage by 200%. It is multiplying its damage by 1.2 per charge.

Im dizzy, V I love ya,
but why so complicated??

So MM's identity is to be a support player? I'll have to see how mine plays after Monday's update.
I enjoyed previously that MM was a way to bring some Physical Damage to the party. Where Lightning's primary purpose was to tank, Fury and MM were the Physical dps'ers.

 

[Lalocat]

Why would I even bother with a feat that ends as soon as I take damage (steady) have you ever not taken damage from an enemy area spell?
I would like dash put back as a marksman feat.

I can't think of any challenging fights in the game where dps can avoid taking damage. Bosses are very fond of blasting type aoes and thorns. And of course solo it's not going to do much when you're the only target.

 

[Valkeri]

Lots of things being confirmed, however I am still hoping my Marks(wo)man will be fixed… it seems like lots of defense of what was done but she was the one Murdered … it was my understanding that we were to put our opinions out here so it could be heard, not argued against at every turn. Please just stop and take a moment to hear, not just listen to respond.

 

[Mutsie]

• Preparedness is now a Marksman feat. It allows you to ignore 15% of enemy resistances for 15s and increases the damage of your next 3 marksman shots by 25% to enemies above 75% health. Gain double the charges when activated while out of combat.
  • This can be used as an opener self-buff in-between tough fights or during elders to cut through some of their resistance.

Correct me if I'm wrong please, but the benefits for double charges are unattainable in raids and lvl 95 elders? I recall we're in constant combat mode there? I could imagine they would be most desired in this kind of challenging content.

 

[Ellusive]

• Preparedness is now a Marksman feat. It allows you to ignore 15% of enemy resistances for 15s and increases the damage of your next 3 marksman shots by 25% to enemies above 75% health. Gain double the charges when activated while out of combat.
  • This can be used as an opener self-buff in-between tough fights or during elders to cut through some of their resistance.

Correct me if I'm wrong please, but the benefits for double charges are unattainable in raids and lvl 95 elders? I recall we're in constant combat mode there? I could imagine they would be most desired in this kind of challenging content.

You are correct about raids but we are not in constant combat at 95 elders