Ekimie

Hunter
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
To Sarah Otter, I feel like it might be time to review the current state of moderation in this forum. Moderators should moderate discussions and not fan the flames.
Moderators are players with opinions and arguments of their own, whether that be good or bad arguments. To say that they should not add to a discussion because it (might) 'fan the flames' or are bad moderators that should be reviewed because they choose to share their arguments is an extremely annoying thing. I don't care what you think of my position as mod. Even though I am not a forum mod. If someone chooses to place extra weight on my/our opinion on a forum only because I/we am a mod, and to be extra upset by it because they believe I should be 100% neutral, that is on them. Arguments cause flames sometimes. The only place forum mods come in is to put the flames out before they break down the roof of the building. It does not exclude them from having the occasional barbecue themselves
 

Math Fish

Squirrel
Royal Guardian
Characters
Math Fish (Marksman), Shama Fisha (Water), Accursed Angelfish (Shadow), Logical Loach (Fire)
Platform
PC, Steam
Moderators are players with opinions and arguments of their own, whether that be good or bad arguments. To say that they should not add to a discussion because it (might) 'fan the flames' or are bad moderators that should be reviewed because they choose to share their arguments is an extremely annoying thing. I don't care what you think of my position as mod. Even though I am not a forum mod. If someone chooses to place extra weight on my/our opinion on a forum only because I/we am a mod, and to be extra upset by it because they believe I should be 100% neutral, that is on them. Arguments cause flames sometimes. The only place forum mods come in is to put the flames out before they break down the roof of the building. It does not exclude them from having the occasional barbecue themselves
Let's put it this way: There have been times in the past when there are certain individuals that simply don't need to be talking to one another because whenever they do there is a kind of argument that makes other people quite uncomfortable. I don't know if it needs to go as far as what @Vita suggested, but I do feel that Sarah should get some people together and have a nice long discussion to see if some sort of resolution can take place outside of the forums. I went through this thread again and counted 13 posts in the first 4 pages that were essentially the same two people arguing back and forth (and never reaching a resolution) or someone expressing discomfort with said argument. That is 16.25% of the discussion, not an insignificant amount. I don't feel like going back to the other threads and counting all the others as well, but I'm sure the total length would be enough to write a short novel at this point.

Whether the starting or "fanning of flames" is intentional or not, or whether there is malintent, I will not judge. The point is that it happened, has been happening for a while now, and people are getting uncomfortable with it. Please stop. That is all.
 

Kitty the Hunter

Villager
Platform
PC
I went through this thread again and counted 13 posts in the first 4 pages that were essentially the same two people arguing back and forth (and never reaching a resolution) or someone expressing discomfort with said argument.
This may be true, I have noticed this on other threads recently. and wanted to know which posts you referred to so I did a count of who posted more than 5 times up to now. Only 3 players so far have done so, 1 at 6 posts, 1 at 10 and finally one with a grand total of 17 posts!
While at times it may be futile to respond and often painful to both poster and reader, I feel it is at times necessary to respond. I am sorry for any discomfort this may have caused.
 

Zaphyra

Master Villager
Characters
Retired
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
Moderators are players with opinions and arguments of their own, whether that be good or bad arguments. To say that they should not add to a discussion because it (might) 'fan the flames' or are bad moderators that should be reviewed because they choose to share their arguments is an extremely annoying thing. I don't care what you think of my position as mod. Even though I am not a forum mod. If someone chooses to place extra weight on my/our opinion on a forum only because I/we am a mod, and to be extra upset by it because they believe I should be 100% neutral, that is on them. Arguments cause flames sometimes. The only place forum mods come in is to put the flames out before they break down the roof of the building. It does not exclude them from having the occasional barbecue themselves
I don't have a problem with mods politely sharing their opinions... polite disagreements are fine.

I have a problem with mods being rude or snarky... while demanding politeness from others.

And mods who unfairly enforce the forum rules, to silence discussion about ideas they disagree with.

While at times it may be futile to respond and often painful to both poster and reader, I feel it is at times necessary to respond. I am sorry for any discomfort this may have caused.
I feel exactly the same way... which is why I have posted more in this thread than anyone else.

In future, I will try to remain polite and respectful of the ideas and opinions of others... in order to help create a forum environment that encourages players to share their honest thoughts and opinions... and I hope our mods will do the same.
 
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Allison Wonderland

Priestess
Royal Guardian
Platform
PC
Last edited
I am a bit confused. Aren't we just encouraging market moguls to grow the cheapest crops to keep an inflated price on blueberries?
Is the purpose of the mana change to keep blue fingered investors selling millions of cheap low level crops scalping high level toons?

I know most of the high level mana hog classes are reluctant to run zones without the guarantee of equitable compensation for the number of mana pots needed ( which is totally understandable and I agree 100%).

You can't focus on mana stats on gear at the sacrifice of combat stats, which is what you do when you say get your gear straight. Isn't the purpose of manipulating these insanely ridiculous gear stats to make you stronger in combat? (just who has a maniacal mind to design gear this complicated to understand? I am convinced they are either sadistic or suffering withdrawal from beer and drug addictions).

If we based the game on one commodity in the AH aren't we encouraging players to spend minimum time and reaping maximum gold benefits?
I can sneeze and grow 200 blueberries a day. All I have to do is log in when I brush my teeth in the morning and when I brush them at night on my 4 toons. I can grow 200 more if I log in at lunch and another 200 after work. I can do that in less than an hour every day.
I have one village slave who is Lv 87gardening from just growing blueberries so I am 100% sure no other time or effort is needed to do anything else in game.
If are going making higher level ingredients essential aren't we back to the same old story making something else dependent on combat?

Raise your hand if you would use motes to craft mana pots.
I seriously doubt blueberry Czars would pay the high cost of seeds for the high level crops.

Are we trying to make the game more pleasing to crafters?
If so we need to listen to what they say.

Are we trying to make the mana last longer or be stronger for the mana hog classes?
If so we need to change the efficiency of the mana pots or reduce the amount of mana needed and listen to those who depend on stacks of mana to play the game.

And I have never understood why blueberries are crops grown in a garden. It's like fishing from trees.
(I repeat myself.. maybe I will just be a gardener).
 

Villy

Villager
Platform
Android
Last edited
Hi,

Here's the current design proposal:
  • Mana Potions will no longer have a level restriction that prevents lower level players from using them.
  • When someone’s level is the same as the mana potion, or below, then the mana potion in all cases will restore:
    • 1000 mana over 10 seconds in combat
    • 3000 mana over 10 seconds out of combat
  • If someone is a higher level than the mana potion, there will be a penalty to the amount of mana restoration. The penalty will be:
    • 1% per level difference
    • Maximum penalty = 70%; therefore a level 95 player using a level 3 mana potion would restore 300 mana over 10 seconds in combat (and 900 mana out of combat)
  • The Mana Shield effect will remain on all potions.
  • Recipes will not change from what they are now.
I will make an immediate follow up post with my thoughts on why I like this iteration.

Best,
Damon
In my own opinion, this is a better proposal by far than 1.0 & 2.0.
Not sure if I have any say in this as this change wont affect or impact me, and Im probably only one of the few that will NOT get impact/affect by this change. Of course, I currently use lv3 mana potions but they will go straight to token vendors as soon as the changes arrive. My potion master stocked up 8 full stacks of bluebitter lime to craft lv93 potions and the penalty of using lv93 is not as bad as trying to waste gold and moted for the blight mana potion. Also, I do like the change to middle talent for mana for some classes and do feel the difference picking middle talent tree, depending on class. For example, my warrior when fully buffed and had mountion song, my total mana is 6.7k and that is alot of mana to get thru and can easily replenish with 1 scornyx (even lowest level scornyx is good but higher/highest level scornyx is for buffs + full mana return, but am surprise noone is even bother to mention balancing scorynx. but then again, they are rares and if players dont gather in the wild just for them) or decent mana management to not be completely oom.
I can understand the frustration of players with insufficient garden levels with this changes. But, best wishes on your gardening leveling adventures.
I never relied on ardent membership for exp buff but recently I have ardent membership activate because a friend brought it by accident and sell to me for gold instead as he already have ardent membership active.
Again, I do not know if I should even have an opinion on this as this changes wont affect me.
I have 4 max level garden toon, 2 at lv89 that plants royal daisy, and my 7th toon I just created 2 day ago is currently working on his garden. The two lv89 gardening toons, can reach lv90 garden with exotics if i ever ran out of my pre-stocked 8 stacks of bluebitter lime. Not sure about this market thingy, because I always craft my own stuffs and never go to AH for any mats that I can gather and craft on my own. I do understand most will be affected by the changes but I just want to let dev know that I find some of these changes to be good.

Wish there is more I can say about this matter but I think I will stop it here ...
 

Klaeklae

Bog Frog
Platform
Android
I am a bit confused. Aren't we just encouraging market moguls to grow the cheapest crops to keep an inflated price on blueberries?
Is the purpose of the mana change to keep blue fingered investors selling millions of cheap low level crops scalping high level toons?

I know most of the high level mana hog classes are reluctant to run zones without the guarantee of equitable compensation for the number of mana pots needed ( which is totally understandable and I agree 100%).

You can't focus on mana stats on gear at the sacrifice of combat stats, which is what you do when you say get your gear straight. Isn't the purpose of manipulating these insanely ridiculous gear stats to make you stronger in combat? (just who has a maniacal mind to design gear this complicated to understand? I am convinced they are either sadistic or suffering withdrawal from beer and drug addictions).

If we based the game on one commodity in the AH aren't we encouraging players to spend minimum time and reaping maximum gold benefits?
I can sneeze and grow 200 blueberries a day. All I have to do is log in when I brush my teeth in the morning and when I brush them at night on my 4 toons. I can grow 200 more if I log in at lunch and another 200 after work. I can do that in less than an hour every day.
I have one village slave who is Lv 87gardening from just growing blueberries so I am 100% sure no other time or effort is needed to do anything else in game.
If are going making higher level ingredients essential aren't we back to the same old story making something else dependent on combat?

Raise your hand if you would use motes to craft mana pots.
I seriously doubt blueberry Czars would pay the high cost of seeds for the high level crops.

Are we trying to make the game more pleasing to crafters?
If so we need to listen to what they say.

Are we trying to make the mana last longer or be stronger for the mana hog classes?
If so we need to change the efficiency of the mana pots or reduce the amount of mana needed and listen to those who depend on stacks of mana to play the game.

And I have never understood why blueberries are crops grown in a garden. It's like fishing from trees.
(I repeat myself.. maybe I will just be a gardener).
Your confusion is justified!

These changes are all about making mana related skills relevant. That is what it is all about. And the recent proposal is a good start.

I suspect the more painful changes centered around stat balance will come later.

In the current system, mana stats are easily replaced by mana pots, completely invalidating almost all mana stats, so much so that the only skills most people actually focus on are damage dealing combat ones.

These threads keep getting hijacked by economy concerns, which really can't be solved until any actual problems actually surface (I strongly suspect they will not, for what its worth). Right now, it's a lot of what-if conjecture and fear of change objections centered around lvl 3 blueberries.

Stay on target peeps.

-klaeklae
 

Minus

Lumineer
Platform
iOS
Your confusion is justified!

These changes are all about making mana related skills relevant. That is what it is all about. And the recent proposal is a good start.

I suspect the more painful changes centered around stat balance will come later.

In the current system, mana stats are easily replaced by mana pots, completely invalidating almost all mana stats, so much so that the only skills most people actually focus on are damage dealing combat ones.

These threads keep getting hijacked by economy concerns, which really can't be solved until any actual problems actually surface (I strongly suspect they will not, for what its worth). Right now, it's a lot of what-if conjecture and fear of change objections centered around lvl 3 blueberries.

Stay on target peeps.

-klaeklae
Well said. And I’m sure we’re a page away from getting this thread closed also. I’m actually ok with the current mana proposal. As with any change we just need to embrace challenge and evolve.
 

Kitty the Hunter

Villager
Platform
PC
Well said. And I’m sure we’re a page away from getting this thread closed also. I’m actually ok with the current mana proposal. As with any change we just need to embrace challenge and evolve.
Given the handicap we are operating under, this is the best we can do.
 
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IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Just to let you all know, I am closing this thread. It has served its original purpose.

BUT, the problem is it has devolved into some very nasty replies to others, so even though it was started by Damon, (and I will let them know I closed it) I am closing it to stop the unkind things being said. It is a shame when we have to close a thread because we are all better than this!
 

Sarah Otter

Mad Otter Games
Developer
but I do feel that Sarah should get some people together and have a nice long discussion to see if some sort of resolution can take place outside of the forums.
I have read all of the recent forum threads, and if at any point, I had genuinely felt that a line had been crossed, then I would have immediately taken action. You of course have every right to disagree with me on this. But I am not in the habit of silencing players, and this goes for an awful lot of different posts made by a number of different players recently, unless I see a blatant crossing of the line taking place. And I have not seen that.

What I have seen are a great many threads which derailed into needless bickering back and forth. It’s off-putting and unpleasant for everyone. However, instead of pointing the fingers at certain people and laying all the blame at their feet, I believe it would be far more constructive if everyone owned up to their parts in the recent trainwrecks which have been taking place on various forum threads. It took the hands of many, not just one or two, to help create so combustible an atmosphere.

The forums are meant to be a place where discussions take place. We encourage it, and we want it. Arguing is of course undesirable, but it also comes with the territory. People will always have different opinions. And if I were made to choose between silencing players and denying them their freedom of speech versus tedious bickering which doesn’t actually cross any lines, I will always choose bickering.

Doesn’t mean I like it, though! So I suggest we all look to the future now, and everyone please make a conscious effort to keep the forum discussions on topic, polite, and to serve the needed purpose of sharing constructive opinions regarding the betterment and health of this game.

Thank you.
 
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