Doorena

Squirrel
Characters
Doorena (fire wizard), Tahana (holy priest), Liza Doorlittle (earth shaman)
Platform
  1. iOS
I cannot speak to the details of lightning warrior because I do not play that class. However, I can speak as a fire wizard who does decent damage struggling not to die in raids.

My understanding is lightning warriors are supposed to grab mob aggro. Prior to the mana build, a lightning warrior would run up to a group, use the feat that grabbed mob aggro (thunder bolt?), then my squishy fire wizard would run in and start hitting. I never had an issue where I would outaggro a good 95 lightning warrior tank.

Since the mana build, my fire wizard is, on occasion, pulling aggro from the tank. Today I attempted an heroic 52 swamp and after hitting Egan for a while, I took aggro from the 95/5 rb lightning warrior tank. My dungeoneering lvl is 100, his is 112. When a lightning warrior has a group, if I use inner fire plus an aoe feat, I will grab the aggro those mobs. This happens to me every single time in swamp, woods, and cloister. It is less of an issue at lower level raids since I can take a few hits but it becomes a glaring issue in higher heroic raids.

Please do not use this as an invitation to nerf fire wizards, damage is all we have. We're not hardy like shadow priests or fury warriors, nor sneaky and ranged like hunters, and those classes can outdamage a fire wizard if built well. It would be great it devs would consider either increasing mob aggro of tanks or allowing them to mitigate the threat of other classes.
 

Grz

Reader
Platform
  1. Android
Last edited
Every class has a feat to mitigate their own threat.

Just no one uses it.
I've used this before... and the only moment I found it doing its job was to activate it in advance before using a brutal-forced barrage of attacks, or it doesn't do anything noticeable to mitigate threat otherwise. And lasts for a mere 20 seconds. You can't use it when your threat is already accumulating too much in hopes of escaping, because it only works on a single target and the rest of the pack will still go after you.
 

Xantia

Arch Wizard
Characters
Xantia
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
I've used this before... and the only moment I found it doing its job was to activate it in advance before using a brutal-forced barrage of attacks, or it doesn't do anything noticeable to mitigate threat otherwise. And lasts for a mere 20 seconds. You can't use it when your threat is already accumulating too much in hopes of escaping, because it only works on a single target and the rest of the pack will still go after you.
It's also a pain in the arse, to switch Tokens in the middle of a battle.
 

Dawnfire

Lumineer
Royal Guardian
Characters
Athon Dawnfire
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
I've done my fair share of tanking before and after the Mana update, and I've yet to see a situation where I lost aggro to a dps character. I've lost the boss' focus on me at times but that was not due to aggro but bug/mechanic (like steeled affix) of the fight. I don't know you nor your tank friend, but the only situation I could imagine this happening is that if he built himself to be overly defensive and you being very glass cannony and doing a huge burst of damage. If this is the case then I think it's fine to lose aggro as a tank. Playing with a tank like that just brings in another dimension of play, namely threat management. You gotta keep an eye on the threat meter to not be on top. Many other games do this (like classic wow, and to stay at this example, they have dual wielding offensive tanks there for raids, for the reason they generate more threat than the defensive ones, so dps players can go more crazy) and I think it's a fine system. If you build your tank more defensive for a more laidback risk free experience, your group should be laidback as well, if you build yourself more offensive and thus sacrificing some of your defense, then your group should be able to be more offensive as well.
 

Antavious

Warrior
Characters
Antavious, suoivatna
Platform
  1. iOS
Last edited
There is a “quirk” of threat that could be responsible I call it a “threat vacuum“ basically if there is a situation with a boss and random adds it’s possible to override normal threat priority rules if enough of the adds (normally 2-3) target a player then this can draw in the aggro of all surrounding mobs even the boss and can’t be broken until enough of the mobs die. I normally see this effect in ladder type bosses with solid adds but I’m sure it’s possible in raids too. Best way to avoid vacuums is to avoid hitting adds or to kill them asap before accumulating too many and if the tank gets them avoid killing the adds as the vacuum will allow him to draw all new adds to him as well. You mentioned Egan, i would guess the blood frog adds are definitely capable of triggering a threat vacuum.

it is possible that a fundamental problem with AOE tanking is triggering the effect more frequently for you (and the tank in question could maybe adjust by switching targets more frequently to get a better group hold) but short of that only the devs can really change the situation.

before the mana patch thunderbolt did more damage and was better at holding aoe threat, after we relay more on random procs from the 5 and 30 point talents. In theory we have more threat in this regard but it’s also more random than it was because you got to build charges and lightning bolt doesn’t always hit all the targets in medium-large groups.
 
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Since the mana build, my fire wizard is, on occasion, pulling aggro from the tank.

Please do not use this as an invitation to nerf fire wizards, damage is all we have. We're not hardy like shadow priests or fury warriors, nor sneaky and ranged like hunters, and those classes can outdamage a fire wizard if built well.
First , your aggro problem is result of OP buff for Wiz . I bet that this thing never ever happened in game before dev update their “balance all class” patch.
All wiz has is damage !?? wdym . Wiz is top solo Heroic raid 50+ proved that Wiz has enough defende to be a OP class . Raid solo is meanless for u lmao
No class can outdamage Wiz for sure 100%. At top player, other class alway lost 5-10%( about 10-30mil damage) at 95s , lost 5-15% (10-50+mil) at raid compare with wiz

I saw Wiz tank run all over raid Heroic lmao . There is group 95 wiz only run Heroic without healer .
How long wiz player stop complain about defence to keep wiz be OP while 95 wiz player still run tank around and not rare 🤣
 
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As i said before Wiz OP damage is a messed . Bosses lost tank target , healer lost tank target . Now all game have to changed (a lot of things) to keep 1 class OP 😆
Other game make 1 class Op , they fix it right away . This game took half year+ to keep it messy until people cant stand it anymore . This messy not just about solo run . Group run become annoy with messy class role. Good thing wiz is strong enough to be tank 😆 Healer should choise strong wiz be tank from the first to keep bosses stop run around like lost child haha
 

Doorena

Squirrel
Characters
Doorena (fire wizard), Tahana (holy priest), Liza Doorlittle (earth shaman)
Platform
  1. iOS
Every class has a feat to mitigate their own threat.

Just no one uses it.
There are ways to mitigate threat, but it is disappointing to be so careful all the time. The point of working on a great build is to have opportunities to unleash your maximum damage and to reign it in all the time defeats the purpose of working on my gear.
There is a “quirk” of threat that could be responsible I call it a “threat vacuum“ basically if there is a situation with a boss and random adds it’s possible to override normal threat priority rules if enough of the adds (normally 2-3) target a player then this can draw in the aggro of all surrounding mobs even the boss and can’t be broken until enough of the mobs die. I normally see this effect in ladder type bosses with solid adds but I’m sure it’s possible in raids too. Best way to avoid vacuums is to avoid hitting adds or to kill them asap before accumulating too many and if the tank gets them avoid killing the adds as the vacuum will allow him to draw all new adds to him as well. You mentioned Egan, i would guess the blood frog adds are definitely capable of triggering a threat vacuum.
Yes, that does happen too and it is definitely a bigger issue of late. But it also happened during single target situations such as Egan (no frogs were out) and Joth'tech.
before the mana patch thunderbolt did more damage and was better at holding aoe threat, after we relay more on random procs from the 5 and 30 point talents. In theory we have more threat in this regard but it’s also more random than it was because you got to build charges and lightning bolt doesn’t always hit all the targets in medium-large groups.
Again, I do not play a lightning warrior so I cannot confirm, but this seems about right.
 
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IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
There is a “quirk” of threat that could be responsible I call it a “threat vacuum“ basically if there is a situation with a boss and random adds it’s possible to override normal threat priority rules if enough of the adds (normally 2-3) target a player then this can draw in the aggro of all surrounding mobs even the boss and can’t be broken until enough of the mobs die. I normally see this effect in ladder type bosses with solid adds but I’m sure it’s possible in raids too. Best way to avoid vacuums is to avoid hitting adds or to kill them asap before accumulating too many and if the tank gets them avoid killing the adds as the vacuum will allow him to draw all new adds to him as well. You mentioned Egan, i would guess the blood frog adds are definitely capable of triggering a threat vacuum.

it is possible that a fundamental problem with AOE tanking is triggering the effect more frequently for you (and the tank in question could maybe adjust by switching targets more frequently to get a better group hold) but short of that only the devs can really change the situation.

before the mana patch thunderbolt did more damage and was better at holding aoe threat,
after we relay more on random procs from the 5 and 30 point talents. In theory we have more threat in this regard but it’s also more random than it was because you got to build charges and lightning bolt doesn’t always hit all the targets in medium-large groups.
This (chat made bold ) sounds like it might be at the heart of what is creating the problem.
Warriors have for many years complained that other classes can take "aggro" or focus of the bounty when the job of the warrior is to keep it. Many times it doesn't matter how strong, powerful or well geared a warrior is, the feats some classes have seem to overpower the warrior threat. This then can lead to the other classes taking much damage and/or dying. What you describe might very well be the mechanic that needs adjusting!
And I agree 100%... PLEASE don't nerf any class, but do build up those who are found to be lacking.
 
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