Ice Wizard. Mana patch

[Onno]

That's where I would like to start.
Why am I playing this game?
By playing this game, I playfully learn to follow the order when I manage to make some values of the characteristics maximum.
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All this relates to the theme of the wizard of ice.
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I don't understand why it had to be made even weaker than before?
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My story is this.
My first ice wizard is the Cold Queen.
While playing it, I discovered the peak power of this subclass.
Peak Strength - 40 talents to unlock an ice javelin that deals 150% damage.
Gradually, the disclosure of the power of the ice wizard when it reaches 95 will fall.
While the rest of the classes, on the contrary, will reveal their potential.
We have a calculation of Frostwizard's peak power of 40 talents and the assumption that the difficulty of raids is scaled mainly for other classes.
Already on the new hero, Realm of Ice, I reached level 51 and started raiding.
By doing so, I slipped through the Ice Wizard Power Peak Window.
Completed raids last season from level 51-71 with Frostmage.
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We all love magic tricks, something unusual.
Therefore, after waiting for people to rejoice, in private conversations I said that this was not my merit, and not the merit of the ice wizard.
I told how raid scaling works.
Thus, I gave up the title of a strong magician of the ice specialization, exchanging it for honesty.
Why did I tell the people around me like that?
It's true, the ice wizard is very weak.
And if I reached level 95, got 130 talents, I would hardly be able to repeat the same thing.
Thus, the focus would have been declassified.
Without waiting for this, I told that this was not my merit, not the merit of an ice wizard, but a scaling error.
I managed levels 51-71, at the moment of the peak of the ice wizard's power, and close the solo raids.
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Now let's talk about who suggested changing the ice wizard.
You saw my calculations as a result that I was able to calculate dungeon scaling and close solo raids.
I would like to see this person online on the ice wizard, how he clears the locations of level 55-70.
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This was hard to do even with the 150% Ice javelin damage talent. Thus, he will justify that the wizard of ice deserved a nerf, but remains playable. . I'm not rushing to be a tester, but at least the opinion of Blackfurry, who plays as an ice wizard, is worth considering. . You need to set a requirement for testers to at least play these classes. . With all this I wanted to say that the case of Reaml of Ice is an exception. . For the sake of an exception to kill a class? . I don't like writing reports. Nowadays, audit services cost money. Therefore, I do not correct incompetent testers. I did this for the sake of other players who play as ice wizards. As you can see, I stopped playing as an ice wizard because I knew about the changes a year ago.

 

[скибидивапапа]

I agree with you

 

[DaZh]

In fact, it's very strange, IceWizard, and so it was very weak, now it's generally the very class that is practically nothing, the only feature of this class, as written above, was the last talent for +150% ice javelin, but now it doesn't have that either, I hope it will be returned or something will compensate

 

[Cosmickitty]

I’m not an ice wiz… but i believe the intent was to increase the dps with the “failed cc gives additional dps” mechanic, if that’s not working as intended actual numbers, statistics, and data will help the otters fix it correctly. They’ve said that nothing is set in stone and things will be tweaked, they just need people playing their toons and sharing info so they can get data to adjust.

worth pointing out… I’m a tester, no one but Vs brain knew about changes a year ago.

 

[Lalocat]

Meanwhile fire is stronger after the patch, in some ways at least.

The stun nerf is very painful however. I tried a Heroic 1 Rookery and even in this raid which is very much not stun dependent, it was very noticeable. Other raids like Cloister will be impossible for wiz to solo now past silver.

 

[Tareco]

Meanwhile fire is stronger after the patch, in some ways at least.

The stun nerf is very painful however. I tried a Heroic 1 Rookery and even in this raid which is very much not stun dependent, it was very noticeable. Other raids like Cloister will be impossible for wiz to solo now past silver.

It will be better start a Fire Wiz thread to discuss about the changes, and leave that one to Ice Wizards only.

 

[IrishElf]

If you encounter something that is not in the patch notes that you think is a bug, please do bug report it.

 

[скибидивапапа]

If you don't mind, I'll write how I see the new ice wizard I hope my dream will be heard

1. I like how Thermal Core works now. this is a really useful change


2. I see the role of the ice wizard in slowing down, completely freezing, immobilizing enemies. I disagree that after using hoarfost, it removes the frozen solid effect from the target. Why would I freeze an enemy and then unfreeze him a second later? what is the point, benefit of deep freeze? I believe that hoarfrost should not remove frozen solid status from the target

There are bosses in the game that are immune to deep freeze. Thus, when attacking these bosses, I am deprived of the benefits of enhanced hoarfrost. I absolutely don't like how it works

150% normal aoe hoarfrost damage.... THIS IS A DROP IN THE SEA. deep freeze cd 20-30 seconds. What is the use of the standard damage of 150% once every 20-30 seconds? Very little damage! Fire wiz can drop fire rain 5-10 times until the frost wizard makes 1 empowered hoarfrost with aoe.

Strengthening the glacial spike I like it, really good

3. The damage increase from this talent is not significant. Nice numbers, nicely written, but doesn't work as a 40 point talent. He doesn't deserve to be a 40-point talent. Just weak and can't give a significant buff to the wizard like a 40 point talent should.

4. I like it. Good boost

5.Doesn't work at all. not efficient. But the idea is good

6.the cooldown of the skill is too long, because of this, the effectiveness is 0

7.i like it
it works

 

[V]

Thanks for the detailed feedback! Constructive criticism such as this gives us the ability to better balance and improve the recent changes.

If you don't mind, I'll write how I see the new ice wizard I hope my dream will be heard

1. I like how Thermal Core works now. this is a really useful change


2. I see the role of the ice wizard in slowing down, completely freezing, immobilizing enemies. I disagree that after using hoarfost, it removes the frozen solid effect from the target. Why would I freeze an enemy and then unfreeze him a second later? what is the point, benefit of deep freeze? I believe that hoarfrost should not remove frozen solid status from the target

The main reason for the Frozen Solid effect being removed upon Shatter is because Shatter also instantly refreshes Hoarfrost. If it was not removed, players could keep triggering Shatter on the same enemy back to back very quickly.

There are bosses in the game that are immune to deep freeze. Thus, when attacking these bosses, I am deprived of the benefits of enhanced hoarfrost. I absolutely don't like how it works

This is understandable. A potential long term goal is to slowly decrease the frequency of bosses being inherently immune to all control effects. They may enter periods of invulnerability / vulnerability based on their mechanics instead, for example. This is not part of the current build, but some of the changes made in the build (reducing the duration of most control effects) opened the door to perhaps doing so in the future.

150% normal aoe hoarfrost damage.... THIS IS A DROP IN THE SEA. deep freeze cd 20-30 seconds. What is the use of the standard damage of 150% once every 20-30 seconds? Very little damage! Fire wiz can drop fire rain 5-10 times until the frost wizard makes 1 empowered hoarfrost with aoe.

This Ultimate is meant to synergize directly with Thermal Core. For example, if the wizard casts a chain Deep Freeze on a group of enemies, they can switch between them one by one, triggering Shatter one each. However, if this is not working effectively in practice, then improvements can be made.

Strengthening the glacial spike I like it, really good

3. The damage increase from this talent is not significant. Nice numbers, nicely written, but doesn't work as a 40 point talent. He doesn't deserve to be a 40-point talent. Just weak and can't give a significant buff to the wizard like a 40 point talent should.

We can look into updating this Ultimate so that it is more useful, and are open to suggestions for its improvement.

4. I like it. Good boost

5.Doesn't work at all. not efficient. But the idea is good

By not efficient, do you mean to say that the chance to trigger the effect is too low, or that the effect is not powerful enough / too short?

6.the cooldown of the skill is too long, because of this, the effectiveness is 0

This can be looked into

 

[Sumi]

Yesss the new 40-ultimate is almost worthless. Every single ice wizard I know in the game has seen a significant drop in DPS (myself included for my pure-ice and mostly-ice builds, and most certainly for my hybrid builds that used the old ultimate). I love hybridizing and have made a heck ton of builds, especially with Wizard as it's my favorite class. The old Cold Blooded, increasing Ice Javelin's damage, was by far the #1 most worthwhile thing to take from ice when making those builds. Now? Not as much. I swapped out 40 in ice for other talents and found better results (despite the 40% ice power loss).

From everyone I've talked to about it, the consensus is clear -I would suggest the easiest way to make ice where it's vision places it, is to combine the old ultimate with the new ultimate, making Cold Blooded not only increase Ice Power when your CC effects fail, but also increasing the strength of Ice Javelin.

This way, Ice will remain the "CC subclass" as intended, and will fit that role very nicely due to the updates, while having enough DPS to clear content as normal and not having mosquito-like damage, but not being on the same level as pure-DPS-focused subclasses, such as Nature, Marksman, Fury, Shadow, and Fire. The DPS classes will shine with their damage still while Ice will be able to complete the solo content (as the majority of complaints are for soloing raids they used to be able to do, or bounties while leveling, etc. Group content you can be carried easily enough.) it's supposed to.

 

[Onno]

I’m not an ice wiz… but i believe the intent was to increase the dps with the “failed cc gives additional dps” mechanic, if that’s not working as intended actual numbers, statistics, and data will help the otters fix it correctly. They’ve said that nothing is set in stone and things will be tweaked, they just need people playing their toons and sharing info so they can get data to adjust.

worth pointing out… I’m a tester, no one but Vs brain knew about changes a year ago.

I’m not an ice wiz… but i believe the intent was to increase the dps with the “failed cc gives additional dps” mechanic, if that’s not working as intended actual numbers, statistics, and data will help the otters fix it correctly. They’ve said that nothing is set in stone and things will be tweaked, they just need people playing their toons and sharing info so they can get data to adjust.

worth pointing out… I’m a tester, no one but Vs brain knew about changes a year ago.

V opened the poll in discord channel about changes Ice Wizard one year ago

 

[скибидивапапа]

thanks for your attention to the post

By not efficient, do you mean to say that the chance to trigger the effect is too low, or that the effect is not powerful enough / too short?

I mean the chance of triggering the effect is too low

 

[BFurry]

I saw my name mentioned... but im not here to comment on the testing process

Nice to see dev responding and explaining the intentions of some changes. It would be better to have more of such details in the patch notes. I think these new interactions of spells and effects need to be played before further comments.

thanks for your attention to the post

I mean the chance of triggering the effect is too low

Regarding the rework of Brittling Chill and Frost Barrier, 20% chance for absorb shield is definitely too low and it still requires both Ice Shield and Ice Floes to activate. This need to be simpler as a basic defence backup. Especially now Ice Shield is practically useless on its own (buff definitely needed here if nothing else changes). Please consider making Ice Shield stronger (like +30% to Armor and MR) and restoring a decent absord shield into Ice Shield. Then maybe the ultimate provide a >50% chance to boost all above effects 200%. This will feel more like an ultimate to me

 

[DanFarrands]

La habilidad del collar del mago de hielo creo que esta mal.
Duerme a los enemigos en area y reduce armaduras durante 15 segundos, asta ahy estupendo, lo que no entiendo es si golpeas a uno de esos enemigos toda la reduccion de armadura desaparece, que sentido tiene??

 

[скибидивапапа]

La habilidad del collar del mago de hielo creo que esta mal.
Duerme a los enemigos en area y reduce armaduras durante 15 segundos, asta ahy estupendo, lo que no entiendo es si golpeas a uno de esos enemigos toda la reduccion de armadura desaparece, que sentido tiene??

Te apoyo. No entiendo cómo se supone que funciona esta habilidad ahora

 

[Onno]

I’m not an ice wiz… but i believe the intent was to increase the dps with the “failed cc gives additional dps” mechanic, if that’s not working as intended actual numbers, statistics, and data will help the otters fix it correctly. They’ve said that nothing is set in stone and things will be tweaked, they just need people playing their toons and sharing info so they can get data to adjust.

worth pointing out… I’m a tester, no one but Vs brain knew about changes a year ago.

Thanks for your reply. Thank you for making changes to the game. For many players, this is a symbol that the game has not stopped in development. Many players perceive change as a sign of movement and life. So once again I wanted to thank you for your contribution to the game.

 

[скибидивапапа]

The main reason for the Frozen Solid effect being removed upon Shatter is because Shatter also instantly refreshes Hoarfrost. If it was not removed, players could keep triggering Shatter on the same enemy back to back very quickly.

I tested alternately using hoarfrost on 5 enemies that were under the effect of Frozen Solid, and found that it required me to press the change target button 5 times + hoarfrost button presses 5 times in less than 7 seconds. This is a lot of frequent clicks, I find it inconvenient. I also found the problem that I don't have time to use Hoarfrost on all the enemies with the Frozen Solid effect, because the enemies that I have already applied the Shatter start attacking me and I have to protect myself from them, stopping the Shatter streak. It really is. Lots of clicks and lots of risks to die.

If this opinion is noticed and accepted as a problem, I would like to suggest that we consider a change to the Shatter effect, in which the enemies remain frozen in place, and Hoarfrost itself bounces on all enemies on which Deep Freeze was used once, but without refreshing. It seems like it would be handy and would give consistent and predictable combo damage.

And if Hoarfrost could reduce the cooldown of Deep Freeze by 1 second after each bounce from the target, that would be wonderful! But this paragraph refers to my dreams

 

[Elijah Lin]

I havent played ice wizzy before but after seeing the livestream I was gonna give it a shot! I mainly base my hybrid from fire, splashing ultimates like brittling chill, ice bloom and frost dominance before the mana patch.

Now with the update, my hybrid fire/ice wizz is broken I was gonna go all icy wizzy but I will hold off the idea for now…

A few things I would like to address and express…


1. Before the patch Frost Dom and Shatter Ultimate, used to be any crit from an ice spell casted, will stun and recover mana, which I loved!! But now it has to be afflicting ice spelling AND Frozen Solid status… which is quite different.

Okay, lets start and count how much effort it needs to take to make the 4th ice wizzard branch work and disadvantage it may have. I really dislike writing all these things, but ill do my best to make sense :

1. Afflicting spell opt first of all comes down to 3(?) Ice storm, Brain freeze (?) and Deep Freeze. I never used Deep Freeze because of the long CD. And never like Brain Freeze as a necklace. Before the mana patch it was cold chill??Does Frost Nova count as ice afflicting ice spell? And does it count as frozen solid? ( cause when its used before the patch, it says Nova Frost)
2. To use ultimate shatter effectively, one needs to deep freeze a target, use hoarfrost on a frozen solid enemy then get the refresh- which you still need to use more mana(?) after it refreshes
NOTE: I can see in one way it helps to build Frost Dom counter stacks by bouncing the ice back but on the other hand, your enemy is free to attack and by which you only have Frost Nova to delay them unless you already used it. Isnt the ice wizzard meant to buff allies and debuff enemies? I feel it would be more useful to refresh deep freeze as well (?) or at least, help speed up deep freezes CD, like shamans, Crag Strike for Earth Shard. Or even when it Frozen solid enemies shatter they have a chance to proc deep freeze around them or proc ice storm to slow down the enemies?? As an ice wizzard you want your enemies at least somewhat hindered(?) for an ultimate on the 4th branch. Not to just freeze the enemy and unfreeze them again. Or what if an enemy is successfully frozen, Deep Freeze refreshes?
3. Glacial Spike can crit strike is a nice touch but on frozen enemy… A bit contradicting, is it not with hoarfrost defreezing the enemy?
In one way, you may say, its a choice between to build up Frost Dom stack quickly to get mana back or… to try and kill your enemy faster crit hits Glacial Spike, which the enemy is still frozen if hoarfrost isnt used before. Are we… maybe forgetting… the ice wizzard has only one Frozen Solid feat and thats Deep Freeze? Or perhaps did I miss another feat entire??
4. All of this ultimate is solely based on Deep Feeeze. Should any ultimate have so much dependence on one feat? (this could be asked with all the classes not just ice wizzards)

——————

Secondly, I want to point out, why was Frost Barrier changed? Why is Ice Floes added into the equation? Ice Shield already worked nicely with Frost Barrier Why would you need a feat like Ice Shield when you can put talents in Thermal Shell or buff your wizzard’s armour, glove, boots and hat? Before the mana patch, Ice Shield procs Absorb shield through the Frost Barrier Ultimate 100%. Players would post or chat about Ice Floes healing vs Ice Shield Barrier. Both of those feats, work good in different situations. For example, why I use frost barrier w/ ice shield is because of the absorb, with as hybrid glass cannon, delaying a bit dmg or poison is perfect! A bonus boost with armour and Mag Resist. I still havent found use for Ice Floes yet Although I wish Ice Floes can target and heal allies as well.

Now with the mana patch update, the practicality of Ice Shield is not very desirable as I mention if you really want def, best to build gear for def than use a feat that mildly barely helps buffs you. Now, if Ice shield could retaliate slow or chill or frozen statuses and reduce dmg % it might be worth considering. Atm as it stands, Ice shield is just there to be actived so ice floes can 20% proc an absorb shield.

Practically, it would make more sense if Frost Barrier has the effect:

“Casting Ice Floes has 20% chance of generating a 200% standard level absorb shield for 15 secs”

Then cutting away the middle man,

“While Ice Shield is active”

Question: What does Ice shield add to an ice wizzard atm? Certainly not like the old holy priest bless, thats for sure.

I do believe Ice shield should be revised, changed, better buff option than the current state it is in.
1. it doesnt add anything to team play and takes an extra space slot.
2. It doesnt really make a difference in combat because your main defense is how well you equip you gear whether its good or bad.
3. The feat definitely needs more.


Some possible suggestions about Ice Shield to make it more useful and interesting:

1. Make it an AOE buff % def and mag res and Ice Barrier Ultimate granting absorb shield and regen
2. Merge Ice floes and Ice shield together becoming a healing feat plus defence buff. Would be a nice touch to be able to target allies and make a contribution to the team.
3. Make an ice barrier protecting the caster and % chance to inflict random effect statuses like slow, frozen solid, debuff def, or knock back to enemies.


Okay, thats all I got for now. I was really looking to try out Ice wizard but Ill wait and see.

I hope I dont sound too negative in the this post as its not my intention. Just wanted to express some and input some ideas for future changes 🫣

And it saddens me that in VnH main line story, you see ice wizards as the main class defending against Mallok and Evil bosses from the Rift, yet this noble class falls short of that fame and glory.

But I hope it will improve in time and build to match up its heroic role in the game.

 

[Onno]

Everyone knew that since the release of the game, the ice wizard is very weak.
This is the constant that has not been revised.
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In the full message, he indicated that there was another ice wizard.
I also played on all classes up to level 60 and managed to feel the subtleties of the characters.
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I found the force vector of the ice wizard, applied the force vector to the plane at a certain period of time. Thus was born the illusion that the ice wizard is strong.
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He don't deserved to removed 150% ice javelin

 

[Onno]

We need more power to contain Mallok's flames.