V

Mad Otter Games
Developer
I will write later my perspective about what i think we are missing right now.

In the meantime i would like to know if the Condemn Talent it's supposed to not work at all in Elders, no matter the lvl of then, they simply resist it's effect. I don't know if it's a bug, or intended, so I'm here asking.

There have been no changes to Condemn introduced in this update. Elders tend to have a higher resistance to those types of effects though - and some may be entirely resistant.
 
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Tareco

Grand Priest
Characters
Tareco & GaiaFørce
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
Last edited
There have been no changes to Condemn introduced in this update. Elders tend to have a higher resistance to those types of effects though - and some may be entirely resistant.
Since you guys are addressing things right now this could be one of those things to be addressed. Probably that's the reason why so few have ever used that talent. I have tested it on Ez Elders, no result whatsoever, but if i remember correctly the Old Brittiling Chill effect could trigger at those elders, while the Priest Condemn could not.

4y ago the talent was working on elders, as these video here shows, maybe it was changed along the years:

 
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Grz

Reader
Platform
  1. Android
Cure mana cost increased from 150 to 200.
  • Cure has always been an extremely powerful spell. It allows the player to nullify most effects applied by enemies. The idea is that this cost is better associated with the power of the spell.
To me, Cure has always been lacking in potency. Enemies spam their debuffs on you a couple seconds later after you cleanse one of your debuffs. So even pre-patch you had to reserve it for debuffs that were crippling, like slows. Further, cure prioritizes cleansing a weak poison debuff from Leafwads instead of what everyone wants removed, the root effect. Cure as a solo player is best used to remove a slow debuff, we just cast restore and other heals to combat the other DoTs and we don't really use Cure to remove majority of debuffs -- we just attempt to outheal them. Cure is powerful in raids because it can restore a big chunk of health if you are Holy, so it would have been better to slightly weaken its healing power but retain its area.

  • Bless now applies a random blessing to the target for 10 seconds.
    • Bless no longer boosts pool stats (armor, magic resist) but can directly amplify the player's attributes in a few different ways (ability power, critical chance, mana cost reduction, damage reduction).
  • Divine Inspiration has been revamped: Casting a beneficial holy spell has a 20% chance to instantly refresh Bless and doubles the power of your Blessings for 15s.
    • This is fairly similar to the old version of Divine Inspiration, except it plays off of Bless.
Some problems with this right now includes:
1. Bless does not duplicate to the caster.
2. Divine Inspiration(DI) does not double bless effect if you cast on another target even if that target has DI, but you don't have DI buff active on yourself. So to make this work like I think it should, two Holy's must be proccing DI to each other. A single holy can't make this work even with serious button-mashing.
3. Personally I dislike Blessed Recompense (mana cost reduction). How about transferring bonus ability power from Blessed Retribution to Blessed Recompense instead?
Righteousness now restores 60% of your maximum mana and no longer restores health. It now magnifies healing by 0.5% per stack.
  • This gives healers an option. Before, holy priests would try to reach 50 stacks as quickly as possible in order to regain their mana and boost their ability power. Now, the choice is between lingering at a higher stack count for as long as possible in order to magnify outgoing healing, or hitting the 50 stack threshold and restoring mana. Personally I felt that this added a more interesting dynamic to the talent which introduced player choice. There isn't a clear-cut optimized way to use this talent anymore (casting low-cost spells to quickly hit 50 stacks). Instead, players can build up to a higher stack count in order to increase their healing (better for allies, or for yourself if solo'ing).
Current mechanics encourage spell spamming Bless, Restore, etc. to proc DI and other buffs. I think the choice here is either to a) slack because reasons or b) spam, because you want to maximize party potential damage output. I feel it's simply a matter of playstyle rather than an introduction of player choice because there was an interesting mechanic introduced.
 
Platform
  1. PC
To me, Cure has always been lacking in potency. Enemies spam their debuffs on you a couple seconds later after you cleanse one of your debuffs. So even pre-patch you had to reserve it for debuffs that were crippling, like slows. Further, cure prioritizes cleansing a weak poison debuff from Leafwads instead of what everyone wants removed, the root effect. Cure as a solo player is best used to remove a slow debuff, we just cast restore and other heals to combat the other DoTs and we don't really use Cure to remove majority of debuffs -- we just attempt to outheal them. Cure is powerful in raids because it can restore a big chunk of health if you are Holy, so it would have been better to slightly weaken its healing power but retain its area.
[/QUOTE
I disagree with this paragraph. I don't see how cure could be 'lacking in potency' - but we can agree to disagree there :) As far as enemies spamming their debuffs - I think they do that BECAUSE mass cure is there.... and EVERY priest has it. There are areas that we need the healing power of cure (it's the only mass heal that we have that is NOT H.O.T.). (Thinking 95 elders = with hox and the bounties that have plague)
 
Platform
  1. PC
While we're talking holy priest....Is there ANY way to get the chained restore to go to people who actually need it? I find I have to spam restore because it is SO random....and it is infuriating to me.
 

Cosmickitty

Bog Frog
Platform
  1. iOS
Maybe I’m the minority… but I don’t hate the changes. I do think they still need a little tweaking. I’m not used to playing with shielding so I can’t judge that, I have 0 pts in consecration. I do have mass shield on my pure heals mace.

bless buffs I’m not crazy about
10% crit feels really low
mana cost would be nice if water didn’t exist, but it doesn’t match holy
third buff seems fine

my dps feels really low, when I try to play more dps than pure heals, maybe that was intended. I think it’s mostly from losing DI, the bless buff doesn’t quite make up for that buff that had nearly constant uptime. Because of this I’ll have 2 options, go pure heals (which I don’t like to do if there are other healers on a run) or hybrid. I’m not sure if that was the intention or not.

any chance we could lower the cd on judgement? It’s a pretty nice aoe spell but has a huge cooldown. If it was a bit more useful that might help my pew pew pews
 
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Kuthroat Warrioress, Dagny Taggart, Evil Genius Giggles, Soulshine Giggles, Alluring... and more
Platform
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  2. PC
I'll provide a quick brief behind the reasoning for each of the Holy changes. As was mentioned during the livestream, the changes are not set in stone and constructive criticism is welcome. While some balancing changes will likely remain as they are, the majority are open to improvement.

I also want to give a thanks to those players who take the time to provide reasonable and detailed feedback - you are much appreciated.
  • Heal mana cost decreased from 200 to 100.
    • This was due to Holy Ardor being removed.
  • Bless mana cost increased from 50 to 100.
    • This was due to Bless being powered up.
  • Cure mana cost increased from 150 to 200.
    • Cure has always been an extremely powerful spell. It allows the player to nullify most effects applied by enemies. The idea is that this cost is better associated with the power of the spell.
  • Heal no longer procs Holy Ardor.
    • Holy Ardor was extremely powerful, not only for Holy priests, but also for their Shadow counterparts. With Heal having a base 6s cooldown and Holy Ardor having a 10% proc rate, players could trigger guaranteed critical strikes more often than they could use Brutal Force, which is considered one of the most powerful DPS-enhancing trinkets in the game.
  • Divine Hammer’s stun duration was reduced from 7s to 5s.
    • This was part of an overarching change to stun durations. Not only player vs enemy, but also enemy vs player. Enemies should spend less time on average being stunned, as should players. Holy priests also tend to benefit more when being hit (retaliation from aura of purity, and sanctified hands) and usually have the survivability to take those hits.
  • Mass Heal’s cooldown was increased from 12s to 20s and its healing was slightly increased.
    • Mass Heal had an 8s duration and a base 12s cooldown prior to this patch, meaning that a priest could guarantee near 100% uptime for their allies. With mass heal having such a large radius (20m), it felt as if healers did not necessarily have to pick and choose the best moment to cast the spell. The best course of action was to simply cast it as soon as it was refreshed. Now there will be some downtime between mass heals, so choosing the right moment is a little more important.
  • Divine Recompense was removed from Mass Absorb Shield.
    • This was due to the Ultimate added to Sanctified Hands, which is more powerful than the Divine Recompense bonus
  • Bless now applies a random blessing to the target for 10 seconds.
    • Bless no longer boosts pool stats (armor, magic resist) but can directly amplify the player's attributes in a few different ways (ability power, critical chance, mana cost reduction, damage reduction).
  • Divine Inspiration has been revamped: Casting a beneficial holy spell has a 20% chance to instantly refresh Bless and doubles the power of your Blessings for 15s.
    • This is fairly similar to the old version of Divine Inspiration, except it plays off of Bless
  • Righteousness now restores 60% of your maximum mana and no longer restores health. It now magnifies healing by 0.5% per stack.
    • This gives healers an option. Before, holy priests would try to reach 50 stacks as quickly as possible in order to regain their mana and boost their ability power. Now, the choice is between lingering at a higher stack count for as long as possible in order to magnify outgoing healing, or hitting the 50 stack threshold and restoring mana. Personally I felt that this added a more interesting dynamic to the talent which introduced player choice. There isn't a clear-cut optimized way to use this talent anymore (casting low-cost spells to quickly hit 50 stacks). Instead, players can build up to a higher stack count in order to increase their healing (better for allies, or for yourself if solo'ing).
  • Sanctified Hands now converts Cure to an AOE but its range was reduced to 6m. Your Heal spell now has a 30% increased chance to critically strike. Your shielding effects provide 40% more protection, reflect 10% of damage back to attackers and provide a random Blessing for 5s upon completion.
    • Mass Cure's radius was quite large, and coupled with its low cooldown it was too easy to nullify all ailments.
    • The critical strike bonus was added to Heal in order to provide some compensation for the removal of Holy Ardor. Is it as strong as Holy Ardor was? No, and it is not intended to be.
    • The shielding bonuses were added to boost one of the more unique aspects of the holy priest - their ability to generate shields on themselves and their allies. It also synergizes with their Blessing system a bit.
As I stated above, we're open to feedback, and I will gladly read through and consider all posts which provide that. However, posts that are limited to "I'm quitting / I'm retiring my character" do not qualify as feedback, provide no actionable value and are entirely unhelpful to all parties.
I'm ok with the changes. To me having a class that you are not having to think about what skills you are using and just clicking through a battle is boring. Who wants a yawn fest during battle? You can't make everyone happy i guess.

As far as targeting people outside of party for heals.. That has always been an issue. I am not sure there is a game that it is not. The tab key works for those out of party .. sorta. But for tab happy people like myself, its easy to tab right past the one you need to heal. Someone mentioned not being able to use the f keys for target? Maybe consider binding party members to another key?
 

Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Glacier, Scab, Drakzy, Ground Pounder.
Platform
  1. PC
Last edited
After a couple yrs of complaining that heals do not work properly they are still not working right but the as most problems in the game they go unfixed unless its something that gives the player a slight advantage over the mobs. people have blown it off and its always well this or that or maybe a debuff or blah blah blah like i don't know what im talking about, so i decided to actually record it in action since all the focus from the devs seem to be toward changing everones builds when it doesn't matter if the game mechanics dont work. The video begins with me rezzing from a death due to the heal not working and throughout the entire video you will see the heals getting triggered but giving absolutely 0 health. hmm well i guess cant even do that because it seems the video is too large for server to handle lmao imagine that. So i think i fixed it i edited the video.
 
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Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Glacier, Scab, Drakzy, Ground Pounder.
Platform
  1. PC
i didnt post this here because it has nothing to do with the patch this has been an ongoing issue for a very long time i was just running trying to make sure i wasnt crazy about what i didnt like about the patch and noticed the issue still happening and remaining unfixed. Not sure who moved it here
 

Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Glacier, Scab, Drakzy, Ground Pounder.
Platform
  1. PC
After a couple yrs of complaining that heals do not work properly they are still not working right but the as most problems in the game they go unfixed unless its something that gives the player a slight advantage over the mobs. people have blown it off and its always well this or that or maybe a debuff or blah blah blah like i don't know what im talking about, so i decided to actually record it in action since all the focus from the devs seem to be toward changing everones builds when it doesn't matter if the game mechanics dont work. The video begins with me rezzing from a death due to the heal not working and throughout the entire video you will see the heals getting triggered but giving absolutely 0 health. hmm well i guess cant even do that because it seems the video is too large for server to handle lmao imagine that. So i think i fixed it i edited the video.
i feel like this needs to be moved back to bug and technical issue threads because thats exactly what it is. I dont feel it i wll get the attention it needs here from the devs since they are more concerned with the patch issues right now it will get buried in all the responses on those.
 
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Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Glacier, Scab, Drakzy, Ground Pounder.
Platform
  1. PC
ok i calmed down a took the holy for good test in heroic 15 woods which should have been easy for me normally but i died fairly quick on the first big boss the treant and after analyzing everything i think mass heals cd is too long, bless definately needs to go back to armor and magic resist and the dps is just trash now so it comes down to this if you want to play holy there is no more versatility its heals or nothing so cookie cutter class. No paladin builds as we refered to them on US3.Screenshot (24).png
 
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Lalocat

Adventurer
Characters
Lalocat Vla Laniss
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
After a couple yrs of complaining that heals do not work properly they are still not working right but the as most problems in the game they go unfixed unless its something that gives the player a slight advantage over the mobs. people have blown it off and its always well this or that or maybe a debuff or blah blah blah like i don't know what im talking about, so i decided to actually record it in action since all the focus from the devs seem to be toward changing everones builds when it doesn't matter if the game mechanics dont work. The video begins with me rezzing from a death due to the heal not working and throughout the entire video you will see the heals getting triggered but giving absolutely 0 health. hmm well i guess cant even do that because it seems the video is too large for server to handle lmao imagine that. So i think i fixed it i edited the video.

Isn't this just the thing where a skill cancels if you activate it just before the targeted mob dies? I didn't watch the whole video but caught one at 12 seconds. It's not just heals, it's every skill. Single target attack, self-targeted buff or heal, untargeted aoe, everything.
 

V

Mad Otter Games
Developer
Last edited
Some problems with this right now includes:
2. Divine Inspiration(DI) does not double bless effect if you cast on another target even if that target has DI, but you don't have DI buff active on yourself. So to make this work like I think it should, two Holy's must be proccing DI to each other. A single holy can't make this work even with serious button-mashing.

By this do you mean that you are able to trigger Divine Inspiration on another player? If so, that is a bug and will be fixed in a subsequent patch. How it should work is:
  • The healer casts a friendly holy spell on either themselves or an ally
  • If Divine Inspiration procs, it will always procs on the healer
  • When Divine Inspiration triggers, the healer's Bless is refreshed and any Blessings they create for the next 15s (either via Bless or their Shield expirations) are doubled in value
If it is able to be triggered on other players then it will essentially go to waste unless that other player happens to be a priest as well, which is not intended.
 

Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Glacier, Scab, Drakzy, Ground Pounder.
Platform
  1. PC
Isn't this just the thing where a skill cancels if you activate it just before the targeted mob dies? I didn't watch the whole video but caught one at 12 seconds. It's not just heals, it's every skill. Single target attack, self-targeted buff or heal, untargeted aoe, everything.
i thought the same thing but watch the third fight against Tins and slow down video a bit you will see there was no mobs dead yet and still same thing. Even if it was a case of a dying mob cancelling the heal that should never happen ever because a dying mob would not have any reason to cancel a heal now i can understand cancelling an attack since the mob is dead and no longer there to attack but your not healing the mob your healing yourself or another player.
 

Cosmickitty

Bog Frog
Platform
  1. iOS
By this do you mean that you are able to trigger Divine Inspiration on another player? If so, that is a bug and will be fixed in a subsequent patch. How it should work is:
  • The healer casts a friendly holy spell on either themselves or an ally
  • If Divine Inspiration procs, it will always procs on the healer
  • When Divine Inspiration triggers, the healer's Bless is refreshed and any Blessings they create for the next 15s (either via Bless or their Shield expirations) are doubled in value
If it is able to be triggered on other players then it will essentially go to waste unless that other player happens to be a priest as well, which is not intended.
how about binding faith not working on bless? Bless is a “single target beneficial spell”. binding faith at max is 76EA03DF-4794-4E4B-9536-89948B0ED96D.jpeg
 

Grz

Reader
Platform
  1. Android
By this do you mean that you are able to trigger Divine Inspiration on another player? If so, that is a bug and will be fixed in a subsequent patch. How it should work is:
  • The healer casts a friendly holy spell on either themselves or an ally
  • If Divine Inspiration procs, it will always procs on the healer
  • When Divine Inspiration triggers, the healer's Bless is refreshed and any Blessings they create for the next 15s (either via Bless or their Shield expirations) are doubled in value
If it is able to be triggered on other players then it will essentially go to waste unless that other player happens to be a priest as well, which is not intended.
I triggered Divine Inspiration on a Warrior. Thanks for the clarification. Any chance it can also proc on the caster thru duplicated effects?
 

Jytal

Servant of Mallok
Platform
  1. iOS
  • Heal no longer procs Holy Ardor.
  • Divine Hammer’s stun duration was reduced from 7s to 5s.
  • Mass Heal’s cooldown was increased from 12s to 20s and its healing was slightly increased.
  • Divine Recompense was removed from Mass Absorb Shield.
  • Bless now applies a random blessing to the target for 10 seconds.
  • Divine Inspiration has been revamped: Casting a beneficial holy spell has a 20% chance to instantly refresh Bless and doubles the power of your Blessings for 15s.
  • Righteousness now restores 60% of your maximum mana and no longer restores health. It now magnifies healing by 0.5% per stack.
  • Sanctified Hands now converts Cure to an AOE but its range was reduced to 6m. Your Heal spell now has a 30% increased chance to critically strike. Your shielding effects provide 40% more protection, reflect 10% of damage back to attackers and provide a random Blessing for 5s upon completion.
The changes to holy did not heavily impact how a holy plays compared to before the revamp which is quite nice. I would like to point out some oddities and suggestions.

how about binding faith not working on bless? Bless is a “single target beneficial spell”. binding faith at max is View attachment 19088
First being that binding faith does not work with Blessings which is quite odd since in description it states all single target beneficial spells, previously this applied to holy ardor, divine inspiration, and cure before so I don't know why make an exception now and would like blessings to work with binding faith .
Secondly, some of the blessings amount is is quite small compared to before, holy ardor was 100% crit rate while retribution is only 10% is a stark difference. The 10% ability power is a decrease compared to the old divine inspiration but since it was too strong this amount is not unreasonable and is fine as is. Recompense mana cost reduction is a nice addition. I haven't concluded if the amount of liberation reducing cc effects is sufficient partly because, liberty drams have 80% effect while recompense is 30%.

I think shields were very weak before the patch, by giving them a boost with Sanctified Hands was a very good idea but, I disagree with adding retaliation damage to it. First, retaliation damage was exclusive to shamans, in earth attune to earth and water' water shield, to give it to priests now to make their shielding more attractive takes away from the uniqueness of it. Secondly, it has unexpected consequences where if an enemy hits an ally that no one else has hit yet to draw aggro, the retaliation damage will make it target the holy who cast the shield, since this is also on an AoE shield cast, it will cause too many unwanted headaches.
The increased shield effect and blessing through shields is enough, retaliation damage on shields is an unnecessary effect.

The decrease in Cure AoE with sanctified hands is quite significant, it is smaller than even Healing Rain which was already incredibly small. Reconsider these changes, and if retaliation damage on shield is removed the cure aoe range being revert to original is a sufficient compromise?
 

Drakz

Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Glacier, Scab, Drakzy, Ground Pounder.
Platform
  1. PC
The changes to holy did not heavily impact how a holy plays compared to before the revamp which is quite nice. I would like to point out some oddities and suggestions.


First being that binding faith does not work with Blessings which is quite odd since in description it states all single target beneficial spells, previously this applied to holy ardor, divine inspiration, and cure before so I don't know why make an exception now and would like blessings to work with binding faith .
Secondly, some of the blessings amount is is quite small compared to before, holy ardor was 100% crit rate while retribution is only 10% is a stark difference. The 10% ability power is a decrease compared to the old divine inspiration but since it was too strong this amount is not unreasonable and is fine as is. Recompense mana cost reduction is a nice addition. I haven't concluded if the amount of liberation reducing cc effects is sufficient partly because, liberty drams have 80% effect while recompense is 30%.

I think shields were very weak before the patch, by giving them a boost with Sanctified Hands was a very good idea but, I disagree with adding retaliation damage to it. First, retaliation damage was exclusive to shamans, in earth attune to earth and water' water shield, to give it to priests now to make their shielding more attractive takes away from the uniqueness of it. Secondly, it has unexpected consequences where if an enemy hits an ally that no one else has hit yet to draw aggro, the retaliation damage will make it target the holy who cast the shield, since this is also on an AoE shield cast, it will cause too many unwanted headaches.
The increased shield effect and blessing through shields is enough, retaliation damage on shields is an unnecessary effect.

The decrease in Cure AoE with sanctified hands is quite significant, it is smaller than even Healing Rain which was already incredibly small. Reconsider these changes, and if retaliation damage on shield is removed the cure aoe range being revert to original is a sufficient compromise?
the changes may not have been much for healing gameplay but for my playstyle is was dramatic and rendered it useless
 

Tareco

Grand Priest
Characters
Tareco & GaiaFørce
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
Maybe I’m the minority… but I don’t hate the changes. I do think they still need a little tweaking. I’m not used to playing with shielding so I can’t judge that, I have 0 pts in consecration. I do have mass shield on my pure heals mace.

bless buffs I’m not crazy about
10% crit feels really low
mana cost would be nice if water didn’t exist, but it doesn’t match holy
third buff seems fine

my dps feels really low, when I try to play more dps than pure heals, maybe that was intended. I think it’s mostly from losing DI, the bless buff doesn’t quite make up for that buff that had nearly constant uptime. Because of this I’ll have 2 options, go pure heals (which I don’t like to do if there are other healers on a run) or hybrid. I’m not sure if that was the intention or not.

any chance we could lower the cd on judgement? It’s a pretty nice aoe spell but has a huge cooldown. If it was a bit more useful that might help my pew pew pews
You definitely aren't alone. After i played and tested some of those changes i came to the same conclusion. Those changes seems to favor more the Healer aspect of the sub class (giving buffs and more powerful shields to allies), while cutting a huge amount of our DPS capabilities.
 
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Tareco

Grand Priest
Characters
Tareco & GaiaFørce
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
Last edited
I can understand some of those changes about Holy Priests to an extend, to better balance with the other classes and to fit better his main hole of being a healer, but i think we have lost a lot much of our DPS, and that's not good.

I can definitely feel the difference of Cure now. Both in power and range of effect, can't say I'm happy with that... Mass Healing increased cd will force us to use it more wise, i liked that.

In regard of healing/shielding i liked making Bless And Mass Absorb Shield relevant now, although some of us didn't liked the change of Bless, and i particularly think the blessings aren't really that good, they could be a little more powerful. Also i think the retaliation function of the shields would be more suited to give to Earth Shaman, instead of players who might draw unintended aggro from enemies with that effect.

Holy Ardor is gone (you will be missed, my dear 😭), Divine Inspiration no longer give us ability power and Righteousness (the healing part of the old version was really unnecessary, and 60% of maximum mana now is enough i think) only giving healing power now (again, why not ability power just like before? That talent was very helpful in long fights, both solo and im group).

Things I'd like to see to have more options for the one of us that like solo content and still be helpful in groups:
Condemn working again at Elders, this would encourage people to use that talent (this in particular bothers as i know it worked in the past, and we have to spend 40 points to unlock it's full potential to not see it working att all in any Elders). Maybe lowering Judgment cd or increasing it's damage.
Both Holy Bolt and Smite deals extra damage against undeads, but how about demons? It's just a wish of mine, to have a more Paladin like class, but i think that would be cool and not that game breaking (there aren't that many demons running around, and that would fit the sub class).

So, that's it. Hope this help making the changes that we need.
 
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