Gathering bans.

Littlenymph · Oct 19, 2019

I think every point and question that can be raised about this issue, has been raised and responded to.
This is something that the devs have already stated will be looked at and addressed, time allowing, with the next patch. If further refinements are needed, I'm sure they will be in the patch after that. Since it is in the top portion of the priority list and a patch is already scheduled for the first of this coming week, perhaps it's best to just table the topic until that patch is installed and we get a chance to see what it does or does not accomplish.

Muhgi · Oct 21, 2019

This weekend I saw lots of plentiful nodes at Forever Tree. I saw very few in Lake Kiwa--and none in the Ash (Oak?) Trees I was using for hours. And I've never seen one in the Thriving Isles--even after checking every node in the place,

Kookaburra · Oct 22, 2019

Muhgi said:
This weekend I saw lots of plentiful nodes at Forever Tree. I saw very few in Lake Kiwa--and none in the Ash (Oak?) Trees I was using for hours. And I've never seen one in the Thriving Isles--even after checking every node in the place,

I would guess that you are unlikely to find them in gathering zones as those locations are much more heavily used by serious gatherers. My best luck has been coming on them by chance when out wandering the world. No matter what the node is for, I will farm any plentiful node I stumble upon.

Taneriana · Oct 22, 2019

I'm very glad that you've implementing this. As a player on mobile I am concerned about a couple of things.
I have to play with the graphics down lower than the default. And with the Halloween zone I cannot have the effects on. So I do not see the bountiful nodes.
When the nodes become depleted I automatically think that somehow I've stepped away or done something to stop the gathering process. So I have clicked a few times. Only after that have I seen that the node is greyed out.
Would it be possible for the pop-up to be larger and maybe more centered on the screen?
Is there a way to tell if a node is bountiful without the effects being enabled?

I absolutely appreciate all the effort that is put into making this game as great as it is. What a wonderful thing this is to have separate from the must pay to advance games out there.
Big hugs to the Otter's and the others behind the scenes.

Omnigma · Oct 22, 2019

I guess i fail to understand. You sit on the node the entire time, and when its exhausted, you fail to see that its not gathering and thus continue to click?

Taneriana · Oct 22, 2019

Omnigma said:
I guess i fail to understand. You sit on the node the entire time, and when its exhausted, you fail to see that its not gathering and thus continue to click?

I'm not sure what you do while you are gathering. As for me I do my gathering and processing materials while I do other RL things. I may be cooking dinner, doing dishes, playing with the cat, ect. So I'm not sitting on a node. So as I am not entirely focused on the screen it is easy not see that it is exhausted. And playing in a phone means you have a smaller screen to be able to see the little message that comes up.
So yeah not "noticing" is pretty easy.

Dark Ghostman · Oct 22, 2019

Maybe the devs could program it so, that you just can not collect for an hour instead of getting banned out of the game for an hour.
Then you could do something else in this time. If that was not already proposed or is planned.

Mrs Whitefoot · Oct 22, 2019

I have gathered lots of materials in game using blue gathers and sometimes spider enhancers, I have depleted nodes a total of 17 times and have clicked on each of them, after they depleted because when using blue gathers you still have items covering the node.... not once have I been banned, I believe it was a glitch and was sorted in a patch. I have failing eyesight and play on PC, I have not found the nodes to be acting as not as intended. To be short, IF I CAN SEE the nodes depleted, then most can

Watch me get banned tomorrow

Muhgi · Oct 23, 2019

Mrs Whitefoot said:
I have gathered lots of materials in game using blue gathers and sometimes spider enhancers, I have depleted nodes a total of 17 times and have clicked on each of them, after they depleted because when using blue gathers you still have items covering the node.... not once have I been banned, I believe it was a glitch and was sorted in a patch. I have failing eyesight and play on PC, I have not found the nodes to be acting as not as intended. To be short, IF I CAN SEE the nodes depleted, then most can
Watch me get banned tomorrow

Some of us, when we gather, gather to extreme--12-36 stacks would be the low end. If you're 5 starring stuff, saving for specialization or a gathering crown, or donating to village projects, it could be 2-3 bags of stacks that we're gathering. (Some level 80 0r 90 players need this much just to get close to leveling up.) This makes it more likely for us to click on a depleted mode.

Crafting is already something many people in the game don't do. Making it even more difficult and frustrating, and the only way I know of to get an automatic timeout, just turns more people away from doing it. Often, I only have an hour or so to play, so the threat of an hour long ban is a big deal. Not to mention, being penalized when I'm a paying customer with current Ardent Society and crown purchases, would make it even more annoying.

Developers, how difficult (I'm a developer, so I understand it is probably more of a time issue than a software design issue) is it to make it so Ardent Society members have infinite nodes? It would go a long ways to making up for removing sockets from membership and might make paying more attractive to more people.

Priest Daimheach · Oct 23, 2019

Muhgi said:
Some of us, when we gather, gather to extreme--12-36 stacks would be the low end. If you're 5 starring stuff, saving for specialization or a gathering crown, or donating to village projects, it could be 2-3 bags of stacks that we're gathering. (Some level 80 0r 90 players need this much just to get close to leveling up.) This makes it more likely for us to click on a depleted mode.

Crafting is already something many people in the game don't do. Making it even more difficult and frustrating, and the only way I know of to get an automatic timeout, just turns more people away from doing it. Often, I only have an hour or so to play, so the threat of an hour long ban is a big deal. Not to mention, being penalized when I'm a paying customer with current Ardent Society and crown purchases, would make it even more annoying.

Developers, how difficult (I'm a developer, so I understand it is probably more of a time issue than a software design issue) is it to make it so Ardent Society members have infinite nodes? It would go a long ways to making up for removing sockets from membership and might make paying more attractive to more people.

You really don't need 12-36 stacks to 5 star an item. My lvl 91 toon just 5 starred armor and weapon with about 8-10 stacks each. That said, I depleted 1 node and gathered at another for few minutes to get that. Previous to hitting 91, I had gathered several stacks at various points and not depleted a node. <Still haven't depleted a village node - but our nodes are at around 1500 I believe> When I DID hit my first depleted node, it was quite obvious that it depleted. I don't see why anyone would continually click on it. And clicking once on it won't harm anything.

As far as an infinite node, I have several issues here. First, how would offering an infinite node not put us right back where we were with having issues with bots? And having it paywalled behind AS, I think it just against the game's design. V&H has always been a free to play game. Ardent Society DID offer some nice perks, yes - but none of them were mandatory to play. I think infinite nodes for AS players would create an unfair advantage for one....and for two, it would tell players that as long as you pay $7/month, you can bot - which is the wrong message.

Zazie · Oct 23, 2019

Muhgi said:
it could be 2-3 bags of stacks that we're gathering

I haven't gathered in those quantities since before Wellspring! The most that my bags will fill up in one gathering session is about 3/4 to ONE bag full. Even if you're trying to get from lvl 90 to 91 in a crafting skill, you need to spread your time spent gathering out over a couple of days. If nothing else, you will run out of gathering supplies before you collect all the materials you need. Sure you could spend silver/charter tokens buying more supplies, but it's more economically feasible to patiently wait another day to gather more. I would spend my time crafting those mats one at a time (saving motes) instead.

Priest Daimheach said:
As far as an infinite node, I have several issues here. First, how would offering an infinite node not put us right back where we were with having issues with bots? And having it paywalled behind AS, I think it just against the game's design

This. My thoughts exactly.

Muhgi · Oct 23, 2019

Priest Daimheach said:
You really don't need 12-36 stacks to 5 star an item. My lvl 91 toon just 5 starred armor and weapon with about 8-10 stacks each. That said, I depleted 1 node and gathered at another for few minutes to get that. Previous to hitting 91, I had gathered several stacks at various points and not depleted a node. <Still haven't depleted a village node - but our nodes are at around 1500 I believe> When I DID hit my first depleted node, it was quite obvious that it depleted. I don't see why anyone would continually click on it. And clicking once on it won't harm anything.

As far as an infinite node, I have several issues here. First, how would offering an infinite node not put us right back where we were with having issues with bots? And having it paywalled behind AS, I think it just against the game's design. V&H has always been a free to play game. Ardent Society DID offer some nice perks, yes - but none of them were mandatory to play. I think infinite nodes for AS players would create an unfair advantage for one....and for two, it would tell players that as long as you pay $7/month, you can bot - which is the wrong message.

I think you're using higher level gathering supplies. When you're stuck using common supplies, it takes a several nodes to get even 4 stacks. Remember depletion is number of gathers, not number of components.

12-36 stacks is for more than one 5 star gear or for the other reasons. Regardless of the exact reason for lots of stacks, the argument still stands.

The infinite node was just an idea. If you don't paywall something, people have no reason to subscribe--the infinite node isn't mandatory but it sure is less annoying. I think penalizing paying players (or non-cheating free players) is even more against the game design. Not everyone is level 80+ with lots of higher level gathering supplies--something I think the more experience players forget. Crafting was tough enough before--now it is frustrating with the added danger of being locked out of the game for an hour.

Priest Daimheach · Oct 23, 2019

Muhgi said:
I think you're using higher level gathering supplies. When you're stuck using common supplies, it takes a several nodes to get even 4 stacks. Remember depletion is number of gathers, not number of components. 12-36 stacks is for more than one 5 star gear or for the other reasons. Regardless of the exact reason for lots of stacks, the argument still stands.

The infinite node was just an idea. If you don't paywall something, people have no reason to subscribe--the infinite node isn't mandatory but it sure is less annoying. I think penalizing paying players (or non-cheating free players) is even more against the game design. Not everyone is level 80+ with lots of higher level gathering supplies--something I think the more experience players forget. Crafting was tough enough before--now it is frustrating with the added danger of being locked out of the game for an hour.

The danger of being locked out of the game for a 'non-cheating' player is very minimal. First, you have to click on the empty node 5 times. Then you are booted from the game. Then, if you relog into the game and click on the SAME node 5 more times, you're booted again... log in and click on SAME node times 5 again, booted again...log in, click same node for 5 times, booted again...log in, click same node 5 times, THEN you are booted from game for an hour. That's a LOT of logging in and booting for someone who's NOT cheating.

Muhgi · Oct 23, 2019

Zazie said:
I haven't gathered in those quantities since before Wellspring! The most that my bags will fill up in one gathering session is about 3/4 to ONE bag full. Even if you're trying to get from lvl 90 to 91 in a crafting skill, you need to spread your time spent gathering out over a couple of days. If nothing else, you will run out of gathering supplies before you collect all the materials you need. Sure you could spend silver/charter tokens buying more supplies, but it's more economically feasible to patiently wait another day to gather more. I would spend my time crafting those mats one at a time (saving motes) instead.

LOL. I started 4-5 months ago and I craft. Do you remember massive gathers to get enough for specialization (I got that for both my toons)? Or if you wanted the gather crown (which I don't have yet)? Or to donate to village projects (I don't do that enough)? I don't have enough gold to convert to tokens to get supplies. (And the 4.32 update really killed what little gold I had. Hopefully with the 4.33 update I can recover at least a little.) Some of us don't spend all day online. I play an hour or so most weekdays and a few (to many) hours on weekends. Why force me to play your way? Let me spend 4-5 hours gathering on the weekend, since that's what I like. Making progress on the quests during the week for an hour a day makes me feel like I'm moving forward and keeps me playing.

CaraLox · Oct 23, 2019

What is so hard about moving to another node after exhaustion?
I don’t understand the difficulty here.

Muhgi · Oct 23, 2019

Priest Daimheach said:
The danger of being locked out of the game for a 'non-cheating' player is very minimal. First, you have to click on the empty node 5 times. Then you are booted from the game. Then, if you relog into the game and click on the SAME node 5 more times, you're booted again... log in and click on SAME node times 5 again, booted again...log in, click same node for 5 times, booted again...log in, click same node 5 times, THEN you are booted from game for an hour. That's a LOT of logging in and booting for someone who's NOT cheating.

It's an added annoyance--this thread started because it happened to someone by accident--so it is possible. Sarah Otter posted it happens after one set of five clicks. Diet posted it happens after 5 sets of five clicks. Under either setup, they keep track of mistakes forever--or at least until the timeout.

Part of it is combining the annoyance of having to change nodes with adding the only way I know of to get an automatic timeout from the game. And Sarah's initial response was not very open to discussion or dissent, which makes me more fearful of more arbitrary annoying stuff--which again indicates the difficult of capturing revenue. If the game becomes more and more annoying, it discourages subscriptions, since there is now a real currency sunk cost in moving to a different game.

CaraLox · Oct 23, 2019

Muhgi said:
It's an added annoyance--this thread started because it happened to someone by accident--so it is possible. Sarah Otter posted it happens after one set of five clicks. Diet posted it happens after 5 sets of five clicks. Under either setup, they keep track of mistakes forever--or at least until the timeout.
.

I’m sure you saw my post before this one, still a valid point.
Just move to another node.

Zeph · Oct 23, 2019

Don't for heavens sake watch netflix with the sound too high! You will miss the sound of an empty node and get kicked! From personal experience! Twice!

Seawolf · Oct 23, 2019

I posted the original post, because at the time it was not working as designed. If you were kicked, it would take only one more attempt to kick again, until you were banned. If you are accustomed to dcing often on certain mobile devices, it was confusing at the time. Let's show just a bit of compassion here. Some folks play on tiny phones, so the gray lettering node is exhausted is very small. Others have very poor vision (glasses and surgery can only correct to a certain point). Some folks are deaf. Some folks are a combination of the above. So, if you don't suffer from these problems, I'm so very happy for you, but please stop the denigrating comments about those who struggle with these issues. Just because it doesnt affect you, that doesnt make the problem any less real.
Thanks for understanding.

CaraLox · Oct 23, 2019

Seawolf said:
I posted the original post, because at the time it was not working as designed. If you were kicked, it would take only one more attempt to kick again, until you were banned. If you are accustomed to dcing often on certain mobile devices, it was confusing at the time. Let's show just a bit of compassion here. Some folks play on tiny phones, so the gray lettering node is exhausted is very small. Others have very poor vision (glasses and surgery can only correct to a certain point). Some folks are deaf. Some folks are a combination of the above. So, if you don't suffer from these problems, I'm so very happy for you, but please stop the denigrating comments about those who struggle with these issues. Just because it doesnt affect you, that doesnt make the problem any less real.
Thanks for understanding.

I understand this, and if one of these conditions is true, then perhaps instead of waiting for node to exhaust... for example, consume your buffs, herbs last 20 minutes. At the end of 20 minutes move over to another node (since the node your at is probably about to expire anyway).
I have been doing it this way and haven't had any problems.