Giruv

Merchant
Royal Guardian
Characters
Verrier
Platform
  1. PC
For the damage reduction part I think what need to be reduced is the unavoidable whole room fire blast, because dying to unavoidable AoE attack feels bad. While the damage on the fire on the floor can actually be increased instead, because right now a good tank with healer can just stand still on the fire and it is avoidable (event tho the lag make it hard to do so).

The increasing the gap between the mark showing up on the floor and the fire actually do damage will go a long way. Also making the fire on the floor can't crit will be great too, I heard some complaints of ppl of dying, because getting stunned/crushed by the fire damage tick that crit.
 

Klaeklae

Bog Frog
Platform
  1. Android
For the damage reduction part I think what need to be reduced is the unavoidable whole room fire blast, because dying to unavoidable AoE attack feels bad. While the damage on the fire on the floor can actually be increased instead, because right now a good tank with healer can just stand still on the fire and it is avoidable (event tho the lag make it hard to do so).

The increasing the gap between the mark showing up on the floor and the fire actually do damage will go a long way. Also making the fire on the floor can't crit will be great too, I heard some complaints of ppl of dying, because getting stunned/crushed by the fire damage tick that crit.
I think the danger involved with a crit..given the nature of the "empowered" ladder, is more than acceptable... it's necessary. Building Glass Canon has it's privileges.. a faster death if caught flat-footed being one of them.

Perhaps a bit more ease in avoiding the flames is necessary.. but not too much.. and only to help counter the inherent lag in the system!

-klaeklae
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
  1. PC
Hello everyone,

The overall goal of Empowered Anosia was to provide a more powerful and mechanically interesting boss. She is also a test-case for experimenting with some changes I made to AoEs, which should hopefully make them:
  1. More performant
  2. Easier to create unique/interesting effects
So while the moving circle of fire is visually similar to something like Artair's circle of fire, they're actually very different internally. Fortunately, it seems like the changes aren't causing any major issues so far.

In terms of nerfs, I am thinking of making the following changes to the Ring of Fire:
  • Reduce the radius slightly.
  • Reduce damage slightly.
  • Modify the color of the particles so that it's easier to see how to get out.
  • Add a longer delay between when the zodiac appears and damage starts being dealt.
Hopefully these changes will make the fight a bit better, while still being hard.


I've seen a few people mention this, and it seems to be the primary issue with the fight right now. To the people that have had this happen:
  • Does your FPS noticeably drop when the Ring of Fire is active?
  • How long is the delay on average between when you start taking damage, and when the fire particles actually appear?
That and any other information you can give me would be helpful.
I will first of all preface my remarks with the disclosure that I have not run the empowered ladder myself, nor do I have any intention of ever doing so. I have this pig headed streak whereby if I disapprove of something I refuse to have anything to do with it. (I still haven't opened a single Darrig chest - not even the unlocked ones from the player calendar.) I have stated clearly that I do not believe the empowered ladder (or any "challenging" content) belongs in what I have always understood to be fun, "holiday" zones for everyone, and I stand by that statement.

Having said that, it would be remiss of me not to admit that I appear to be in the wrong on this one, since, from what I see both here on the forums and in world chat, it would seem to that the empowered ladder is extremely popular with the majority of the playerbase, with the only issue being that (Anosia apart) the faeries are not challenging enough.

Having got all that out of the way, I would suggest caution in making too many changes at once. From what I can see, the principal issues seem to be that the fire is not necessarily "signposted" well enough or early enough for players to avoid it, especially for PC players, and that issues with lag/latency often cause players to be dead before they are even aware of the fire. With this i mind, I would suggest that the four "nerfs" that you have indicated might be unnecessary overkill. I do not think I am alone in feeling that sometimes you guys have a tendency to overcompensate when problems arise. I would personally suggest that in this case, the 3rd and 4th suggestions alone might address the two issues mentioned, without the need to make any actual "nerfs" to the damage or radius. At the very least. I would advise trying them first - the damage and radius nerfs could still be added later if it still seems there is a problem.
 

Squonk

Master Villager
Characters
Squonk, Auburn Bow, Morgawa, Auburn Shade, Auburn Flame, Auburn Assassin, Medusala, Auburn Saint, +2
Platform
  1. PC
Burning to death on a part of the floor that is not on fire yet due to lag - then watching the flames appear 2 seconds after death is such fun :D
 

Angelina

Squirrel
Platform
  1. Android
I would like to say about mapdesign .In maps where the conflict zones are located on the same map,FPS drops very much, for example, Twilight Event map ,Grincha Lair and Darty Wood. But there are maps with good FPS, they also have separate zones for boss battles: Glendergan.And the best FPS eventmap is Egypt Event.I don't know if this will help you or not.I think that if the ladder takes place in a another map, there will be no lags
 
Reactions: Zaphyra
  • Likex1

Shyama

Bog Frog
Characters
way too many... :)
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
For me, the hardest things seem to be seeing around the trees & avoiding the pillars. If I zoom the camera out far enough to see where the fire is, the trees get in the way. If I zoom in to see around the trees, I can't see clear spots on the floor. At least 2 of my deaths yesterday were because I got stuck on a pillar and couldn't get out of the fire fast enough.
 

Halleebell

Squirrel
Characters
Hallee/Freyra
Platform
  1. iOS
  2. PC
The trees have been adjusted. Should the pillars be removed?
Now if we could get some of those tree’s removed from 95 elders...that would be a blessing. 🙊

And yes like basha said at least for her.
 

Math Fish

Squirrel
Royal Guardian
Characters
Math Fish (Marksman), Shama Fisha (Water), Accursed Angelfish (Shadow), Logical Loach (Fire)
Platform
  1. PC
  2. Steam
Of course. I will look at improving some of the other bosses in the Empowered Ladder.

I took some notes in a Word document while fighting the old ladder. I'm still thinking about Prisma. Anyway ... I tried to favor things that could be copy/pasted from other parts of the game over brand new mechanics. Here is what I came up with today:

1620358916238.png

1620358939149.png

1620358957297.png

1620358974381.png

1620358990566.png
 

justbequiet

Villager
Platform
  1. iOS
  2. PC
Honestly, I think Hard Ladder needs to be a test of in-game knowledge/mechanics and the only mechanics of this boss is the fire floor which, with time and a few graphical tweaks to reduce lag, can be learned

The double fireblast alone is unavoidable and deals 40-50% of your HP per fireblast. Unless you invest in getting all the buffs and gear to match an end-game raider veteran, its just not possible to survive without using premium consumables like Rezzies and Full-Heal pots even if you have a good healer and tank.

rather than propping up all the boss stats arbitrarily, I recommend adding mechanics instead.
 
Reactions: Zaphyra
  • Likex1

Lalocat

Adventurer
Characters
Lalocat Vla Laniss
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
I took some notes in a Word document while fighting the old ladder. I'm still thinking about Prisma. Anyway ... I tried to favor things that could be copy/pasted from other parts of the game over brand new mechanics. Here is what I came up with today:

Holy crap dude. Glad I finished the quest already!
 

Math Fish

Squirrel
Royal Guardian
Characters
Math Fish (Marksman), Shama Fisha (Water), Accursed Angelfish (Shadow), Logical Loach (Fire)
Platform
  1. PC
  2. Steam
Holy crap dude. Glad I finished the quest already!
I take it from the initial reaction that this is a bit too much? lol

I meant for this to be difficult; comparable to the level of danger that Anosia currently provides. Every part of what I wrote up there (except what they already have ... that's already in the game) is up for discussion. To help facilitate that discussion, I will provide a basic explanation of some of the abilities that not all players will be familiar with:
  • Turenia
    • The healing ability from Tuatha is an interesting one: Tuatha takes massive damage over time, but will occasionally apply a super heal to herself to restore all of that health back and then some. The net result is a strong heal over time effect. The counter is to kill her before she can use it. In other words, this is a DPS race.
    • However, she doesn't provide much of a threat to players until the minions start to build up. That is where the challenge comes in. If you get her very low, but don't finish her off, you will have to deal with a large number of minions and still finish her before she heals to full.
    • Overall, the difficulty for this one is low, but it has the potential to become a nightmare.
  • Eldelia
    • Ceth Arkenblood's ability is simple: Occasionally, gain +20% Ability Power. That means all abilities will do more damage as the battle progresses.
    • Koggenstein's ability is better seen in action than explained ... He will have a phase where he s nearly immune to damage and he will not do much. It is intended for players to heal up during this time. Then he will have a phase where he does progressively more and more damage (it is deadly for those who fight him at level, but can be adjusted for the event zone) to everyone in the arena. It is intended for players to do as much damage as possible during this phase because he takes massive damage while doing this.
    • Combined you have an aoe that does moderate damage to start with and will progressively get worse until either everyone wipes or you finish him off.
    • Overall, this will be fine for heavy dps groups and very difficult for every other group.
  • Rakicia
    • Most of the abilities are just Shadow Priest spells.
    • The exception is Shadow's Embrace: It nullifies all healing for 15 seconds and does a laughable 2 damage over time. This version of the ability will simply nullify all healing until the phantom is killed, but deal no damage itself. The difficulty of this will depend on how frequently the phantoms are summoned and how quickly groups react to it.
    • Overall this will be a moderately difficult battle for all types of groups. The true challenge will be how you handle the main tank getting Shadow's Embrace.
  • Umbra
    • Thorns was literally the only thing I could think of to provide meaningful threat to ranged heroes throughout the fight.
    • Tremors is meant to make it more difficult for tanks to maintain threat when combined with Earthquake. So there is a chance that a super dps will take aggro during Earthquake because crits are lowered and the tank is stunned for a while. This will make liberty drams very important for tanks.
    • Rock Bite is meant to make Umbra faster. I was thinking about adding the charge as well to be used only when the target is out of melee range. It would be interesting to have an earthquake go off and then Umbra charges to a DPS toon on the other side of the arena. hehe
    • Outside of that there is no real threat here. Overall, this is an easy battle as long as your tank is okay-ish and doesn't lose aggro ... and you have some decent healing.
  • Vesesia
    • Vesesia's natural abilities only slow movement speed and provide no threat to those more than, like, 10m away from her. This build aims to change both of those.
    • Wind Shear will lower the resistances of all those attacking her by up to 40%. That will immediately make taking damage from her hurt a lot. The good news is that pure healers don't have to worry about it. They will instead have to worry about keeping people alive. lol
    • Novacore has a Frigid Reality ability that will lower your Attack Speed by 10%, then 20% ... all the way to 95%. Notice I said Attack Speed and not Haste. In short you need to finish the battle before your heals are too slow to keep up with the damage coming out. Attack Speed buffs are a must here.
    • The other spells are just Shaman abilities with very long cooldowns. But those cooldowns will seem fast after your get a few stacks of Frigid Reality.
    • Overall, this is a moderately difficult fight. If you don't have decent damage, then you may end up wiping (or nearly wiping) due to getting slowed too much.
 
Reactions: Zaphyra
  • Likex1

Xii

Guest
As a former mythic+ competitive raider in WoW, I highly enjoy the way she is at the moment. What I would change are the trees if anything. Make them visual-only so you can walk through them or slightly smaller, maybe bonsai trees. I like them however as they are, more fun to know you can get stuck there.

The hardest bosses should not allow for any mistakes to be made and should require perfect coordination of a highly synchronized team.
Damage should be a part of the mechanics IMO and there should not be a 100% way out of all damage dealt from the boss (if not a tank).
Healers should be on their toes all the time and have to swap targets and not just be locked on the tank and spam skills while running.
This is what high-end content should be all about and not something anyone should be able to do and nerf it accordingly.

I would suggest removing Voltans from these bosses too as it makes it very non-challenging.
Try to incorporate resurrect into the healer classes somehow, as this would be more interesting.

/Xi´s 2 cents
 
Reactions: Zaphyra
  • Likex1

Felina

Adventurer
As a former mythic+ competitive raider in WoW, I highly enjoy the way she is at the moment. What I would change are the trees if anything. Make them visual-only so you can walk through them or slightly smaller, maybe bonsai trees. I like them however as they are, more fun to know you can get stuck there.

The hardest bosses should not allow for any mistakes to be made and should require perfect coordination of a highly synchronized team.
Damage should be a part of the mechanics IMO and there should not be a 100% way out of all damage dealt from the boss (if not a tank).
Healers should be on their toes all the time and have to swap targets and not just be locked on the tank and spam skills while running.
This is what high-end content should be all about and not something anyone should be able to do and nerf it accordingly.

I would suggest removing Voltans from these bosses too as it makes it very non-challenging.
Try to incorporate resurrect into the healer classes somehow, as this would be more interesting.
I don't disagree with what you are saying but at the moment it is mostly a game of luck not a skill challenge.
 

Math Fish

Squirrel
Royal Guardian
Characters
Math Fish (Marksman), Shama Fisha (Water), Accursed Angelfish (Shadow), Logical Loach (Fire)
Platform
  1. PC
  2. Steam
I'm still thinking about Prisma.
This is a rough idea, but I wanted to get this done so I can do something else. I'm done thinking about Prisma, now. :)

Prisma
  • has Frost Bite (like Vesesia)
  • has a fire aoe (like Anosia)
  • has a shadow aoe (like Rakicia)
  • has Toxillation (like Eldelia)
  • occasionally heals for 2% hp (like Turenia)
  • aggros nearby fae on occasion
Add/Change
  • Remove Toxillation (It is lag-inducing! Getting rid of it will help with the other mechanics.)
  • Remove Frostbite (doesn't really serve a purpose)
  • Remove the shadow aoe.
  • Remove the heal or buff it considerably. The time to cast gives players a large window of free time to just wail on her without fear of retribution. The net result will be that she is lower in health than before and didn't do any damage.
  • Prisma has Rain of Destruction and Siphon Power (from Hox)
    • Alternatively, she can have Rain of Destruction and Brawler. Both options have some interesting effects.
  • Add an Earth aoe. I was considering adding Earthquake, but with everything else it seemed to be overkill.
  • Prisma now has all the following abilities:
    • Tidal Wave
    • Tempest of the Roc (heals Prisma by 2% of her max health per cast)
    • Contagion
  • Numerous fae appear in the arena with Prisma.
    • They will literally spawn at spawn points just like trash mobs out in the world.
    • They will all be scaled versions (and maybe empowered as well).
    • Spawn rates will work a lot like the event zone. The event zone has them spawn in every 20 seconds ... maybe it needs to be a bit longer. We will see. lol
 
Reactions: Zaphyra
  • Likex1

Xii

Guest
I don't disagree with what you are saying but at the moment it is mostly a game of luck not a skill challenge.
If you keep tight as one group and move around with fleethindras together there should be no problem defeating her. I've done it many times.

Cant keep nerfing the bosses to the point where it's not fun just cus some people just wanna auto-attack their way through it.

Imo the empower one should not give any tears and normal should give more so it can be kept as experiment ground for competitive gamers.
 
Reactions: Giruv
  • Likex1

Giruv

Merchant
Royal Guardian
Characters
Verrier
Platform
  1. PC
I think the danger involved with a crit..given the nature of the "empowered" ladder, is more than acceptable
The crit damage itself is fine, tho I don't like it, it is something I can live with. What I hate the most is the small chance of stun/crushed when receiving critical hit, it is way to random to play around.
 

Ashwin K

Hunter
Characters
AshK , ashwk
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
No need to nerf emp Anosia..just remove trees which makes it so much harder to view the floor. Idk if the difficulty for Anosia was intended one or not but it really fun to try and satisfactory when we succeed and to be frank I just login nowadays just to do her . Rest of the empowered bosses are pretty bland and boring.
 
Reactions: Zaphyra
  • Likex1

dovewing912

Hunter
Characters
MonkahMan EmberJean
Platform
  1. Steam
So I have tryed to beat this unkillable ladder 8 times, and everytime the entire group just dies at the fire fairy. And then i find out there are actully people saying it's too ez. It's not ez, it's broken, it needs to be nerfed or just delete it entirely.
 
Reactions: justbequiet and Ashwin K
  • Angryx1
  • Likex1
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top