Damon Otter

Mad Otter Games
Developer
Hi,
We're looking for suggestions on adding some interesting boosts to make it easier to do dungeon runs. Any ideas?

Damon
 
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Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
Personally I think any things need to done on combat mechanics instead but I know it gonna take a lot of time, here are some idea i an think of.

  1. For most low level party the problem is that the boss regen so much that they just can't beat them, without having warrior with slash or hunter with wounding shot and sometimes it still not enough. One of the tweak that can be done is to increase the boss max HP and reduce they're HP regeneration/heal. One of the best example for this is Josephine and her gang, She heal a lot but if you try increase your damage you die from the damage return which make the situation really awkward without high level party.
  2. The second problem is constant death without chance to react, this cause frustration and after a while player just get discouraged to do more dungeon run because running out of rezzie. Addressing that issue a lot of thing might need to change on the combat mechanics side, to lessen the impact of this issue, may be give player a limited free resurrect for each run
  3. Introduce random monster weaknesses. This is the reverse of the random buff that the mob in dungeon have, this could be fun and actually reward players that do the right thing. For example mob that take extra damage from holy, nature, fire, etc, like the holy priest extra damage to undead, but this one is built in the monster instead and it will roll randomly which class it is weak against. A random mob can also give players damage boost, immunity, movement speed bonus or the group of mob have less defense, attack, etc for a period of time when killed. There are a lot more thing you can do and be creative with this mechanic. This will make more strategy to think/try throughout the run and kinda give each class a pseudo role.
  4. Cut dungeon into different part with different reward similar to lvl 95 elders. This way after each elder in the dungeon players can have a short break to regroup and discuss they're strategy. Also making each part have their own reward will make team that can't finish the whole dungeon more interested to try, because as of right now if you can't complete the whole dungeon, it just felt really bad because you almost got nothing. The different with the lvl 95 elder is you can't start part two, before completing part one in the same rune, this way it will still have the dungeon vibe in it.
  5. After all that I think the biggest issue for the dungeon is not that its too hard, but the reward just doesn't cut it with the difficulty we have now, Like its okay if its hard, but the reward should be appropriate. As of right now it is just much better to do a bounty run, much easier, almost no risks, less stress, faster, and more rewarding. This doesn't make dungeon easier but it will make dungeon more popular.
 
Characters
BashaDrake, Elmeti, Knytro
Platform
Android
I honestly cant think of buff items that could help.
Right now it seems that Red Cloister is pretty well balanced, at least from my limited runs recently. The problems with Halls is still Corpus and Josefine take way too long so that even with zings silver is rare. And not being able to break up the 3 mobs at Josefine created a fatal bottleneck. Megrhin is still putting out huge amounts of damage. I simply wont even try taking any of my chars besides my tank to that dungeon, and the last successful run still had over half of the group die before the fight was over.
 
Royal Guardian
Characters
William Hououin
Platform
iOS, PC
Please remove the timer... or make it optional ?

the timer only makes people run like headless chickens, it prevents us to make strategies and to have fun... at least that’s how I feel...
 
Characters
Tiffa, Ruby Wolf
Platform
Android, PC
Add some Dungeon only Crafted Buff potions, this would add some more recipes to the game and would also help lower level players get boost in dungeons.
Example: LV 25 - Dungeon Health boost for players between level 25 & 35 gain 50% total Health and 25% increase on Health regeneration for 30 min Only while in the Dungeons
Also have ones for Mana, Damage, Shielding, Etc..., but have them where you can only use 2 Special potions while in the dungeons (like the limit of 1 dram at a time).
 
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SprigOfHalcyon

Master Farmer
Royal Guardian
Platform
Android, PC
The # 1 issue with the dungeons is that most people don't have Elder Bane and therefore can't critical hit Josefine / Corpus / Meghrin / FatherMother / Maggwood / Benedicta.

If I could have one thing changed to fix that, it would be to:

1. make it so everyone can critical hit elders

and make it so Elder Bane only effects the damage done to Elders (not the ability to critical hit). Let's say a character has 20% crit chance and 250% critical damage (which is not crazy investment). They could do 30% more damage to the elder just by being able to crit (plus any abilities that proc off of crits). Elder bane will still be quite useful, as the damage boost there is another 10-20% (or something, I don't understand how the math works on that one).

We can't do much to address the dungeon without addressing the "performance gap", so this would be my number 1 option. If you make it easy enough that people without Elder Bane can be successful (silver?), then people with Elder bane will annihilate it (always gold).

There are many other things, and don't want to distract from that first thing, so will leave that all in this post.
 

SprigOfHalcyon

Master Farmer
Royal Guardian
Platform
Android, PC
I agree with Giruv that the reward doesn't cover the expense.
2. Maybe add a premium rewards bag not related to reward tier (thinking half mana/heal and voltan's)?
I love the dungeons and enjoy a challenge, I spend around 40 mana potions, 2 scornyxes, and 1 Voltan's per dungeon run typically. The gold and gear reward from the weekly makes this worth it to run once per week, but it costs even more to run bronze/silver than a good gold run. The fun of running also makes it "worth it" to me.

I would disagree that people die too fast. It's that "performance gap" again, someone with 30% resists and a bit of vitality does "fine". (Obvi, you still die like I did on my last RC run where our team aggroed 3 groups of mobs and a bounty boss and somehow all 3 groups of normal mobs attacked me! (meanies) Not sure who had the boss, but I don't think me.)

Other small things:
Heroic Halls without zings sort of seems like it will be impossible to get gold in.
3. reduce the # of skeletons needed in heroic halls by 1/3rd.
4. Change rewards to just have 3 tiers: Gold, Silver, Bronze.
5. Take away the timer after Silver time is up.
If some folks need to spend 1 hour running and finishing the dungeon: great. Doing the dungeon faster = more rewards/time. The timer is "double penalizing". Silver at the moment requires pretty good work/strong team, so a team that knows they can't make silver can just take it at their pace, set up the fights/tanks/etc.
6. Make it so "tank spec" classes cause monsters to take 5-10% more damage when they have aggro. This can be dungeon-only. Not sure what to key it off of, maybe have to tie it to some ultimate/skill in the talent tree (I'd suggest as part of the 40-pointer). This will not only make the runs go just a bit faster, but also give tanks a better roll in elite teams. Top DPS players have enough defenses to tank the bosses, so it's nice to "be able" to run without a tank spec player, but taking one should not be a "burden" damage-wise. This will also incentivize DPS classes to "back off" a little to let the tank keep aggro.
 

Arjuna

Grand Priest
Characters
Arjuna, Lord Villian
Platform
Android
I think that the biggest problem with the dungeons is in the balance for all levels. This is obvious in the 95s where everyone is similarly geared and at the same level, the balance is pretty spot on.

When we take that same 95 elder group into one of the other dungeons we have really successful runs, as again everyone is similarly leveled and geared.

However, when you open a dungeon group up to world chat and anyone shows up with different levels and different qualities of gear, then the results are often disastrous and frustrating.

Instanced dungeons with different tiers for levels and gear would make balancing easier. You could have an instance for under 65, and then for 66 and up in order to not overly complicated it with too many instances. Players could still choose the higher or lower level instance if they wanted to, but they would know going in if it's going to be harder or easier. Additionally, if you were over 66 and going into the higher level instance, but poorly geared due to the accumulated power level of your gear you could get a warning that it's going to be hard for you.

Otherwise, I can't think of a single item that would make these easier unless perhaps an unlimited res. I always feel bad for people who die before the boss and didn't bring a res to the fight.
 

Arjuna

Grand Priest
Characters
Arjuna, Lord Villian
Platform
Android
level restrict them to 10-19, 20-29, 30-39, etc. and they won't complete or reward if someone is outside the range is in the group or helps the group. Give us a reason to group up
I would like this, as I really don't enjoy having a higher level just do things for me. However, when I was running Sea Caves with my alt the other day, there were like 4 other people running the zone too, and when I suggested we group up to take on Wrinkles, not one single person responded. That's kind of unfortunate.

A party finding tool in the game might be helpful. Especially as I see from other posts that finding a group is sometimes stressful for people. I really liked the Looking for Group tool in WOW back when it was implemented.
 
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Platform
PC
or simply return it as it was before .-.- on EU noone wants run dungeons and last time we hardly got group of random leveled ppl we all died at 3rd tier because we cannot make it in time even with zingara... dungeons should be doable for all levels not only for level capped...
 

Leizong

Legendary Hero
Platform
Android, PC
我有几点建议:
1,地牢应该分为
[QUOTE =“ Damon Otter,帖子:37460,成员:5”]
你好
我们正在寻找有关添加一些有趣的增强效果的建议,以简化地牢的运行。有任何想法吗?

达蒙
[/引用]
感谢尊敬的达蒙给我们这个公平的讨论机会,我有以下几点想法和你们分享:
一,关于我们这个游戏而言,击杀长者,不断的重生似乎是游戏的主旋律。这个过程很难,一些玩家需要花费一年到两年的时间甚至五六年的时间来达到。我不知道你们发现没有,当玩家到达95级,经历所有重生之后他变得无所事事,当然更多的玩家在中途就已经放弃。我们的游戏有独特的魅力,这也是我坚持了两年的原因,并且现在它是我手机里面唯一的游戏。所以我希望他有更多的改进,吸引更多的玩家,挽回那些遗失的玩家。地牢确实是一个很棒的想法,但是我认为它仍旧有更多的改进的地方,我希望他成为所有人的游乐园,在任何时候【当活动区结束的时候,玩家变得无所事事】。
二,下来是我关于地牢提出的一些建议,地牢应该有多种类型,我简单的分为四个类型:
1,单人地牢:可以一个人运行,奖励为最高紫色装备,金币,微粒,大量的生活材料,比正常采集高出一倍。
2,经验地牢:至少需要两个玩家,最多不超过6名玩家才可以进入。鼓励新玩家反复通过此地牢获得大量经验,同样,光荣城会员获得双倍经验奖励。
3,团队地牢:一个最多可以容纳六个人的团队,奖励最高为特定橙色装备和95级的装备材料,并且无法交易,无经验奖励,目的是让满级的玩家有事可做。
4,世界地牢?:每天或者每周有这个地牢的日常活动,所有的人都可以参与,可以时间进度击杀,需要至少20人才可以完成,奖励荣誉值(可以兑换稀有的宠物,坐骑,玩具,时装),毕业的装备,所有人都是公平的。
三,所有的地牢都有他们的排行,例如输出第一名,参与次数第一名。地牢应该有特殊的等级,转移参与次数的增加,略微增加该玩家在其中的奖励或爆率。
以上是我的部分想法,祝愿我们的游戏越来越好。
 
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KAVE

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
Hi,
We're looking for suggestions on adding some interesting boosts to make it easier to do dungeon runs. Any ideas?

Damon
I have been running Dungeons consistently since they were introduced. They are, by far, my favorite content in the game at this point. I even have characters I am raising across all the US servers (1 Tank, 1 Support, 1 DPS) just so that I can participate in their runs.

Throughout the months, I have noticed that Dungeons are not as popular as they once were. This is due to a collection of reasons, which I will list below.

1. Scaling and Gear

This is the major roadblock. Why is it that Dungeons have become pretty much exclusive to teams consisting of capped / high level players? Low level teams are absolutely crushed and decimated in their first attempt, that's why. I am going to sound like a broken record here... but it needs to be said. The problem is Gear and the Performance Gap.

Dungeons are designed to expect teams of organized and well-built players. Creating a powerful build is seen as a late or end-game activity though. Why would a low level spend gold and sockets to customize their builds when they will outgrow the equipment within a couple of days?

Thus, lower level performance is extremely disproportionate compared to higher level performance. The gap is wide. They are being carried... there is really no two ways about it. They're being carried.

Next we have higher levels who don't know HOW to build their characters. Their performance is generally closer to a lower level's performance than that of their well-built comrades.

So, what is the solution here? We've got to fix the gear system. Follow a layered approach towards customization and gains for the best outcome. This way you avoid large performance margins between your top and bottom tiers, and players of all levels can participate in content. I plan to have a post on this soon, but it will model closely after my Gear System Suggestions thread in the past if you wish for a refresher. Also view my Performance Gap thread for my thoughts on that very real and very important topic. Gear and the performamce gap go hand in hand.

2. Roles

I can't speak for other servers, but on US3 we are always lacking healers and tanks. And the ones who do consider themselves as such don't always do too well due to my previous point. Why is this so? The timer plays a part actually. Tanks don't want to lead because there is a lot of communication involved, which is difficult on mobile with a timer ticking in the background.

3. Leadership

Where are the leaders at? On US3 I don't know of anyone besides myself that leads in Cloister or Halls. This also may be due to the timer / communication problems mentioned above. Maybe try to simplify some of the leadership tasks. For example, instead of 8 enemies and the quest only asking for 4 (Leader has to decide which), why not just have a standard 4 bounties? That takes some of the stress off leading.

4. Rewards

As others have stated, the rewards aren't good. You can get Legendary gear from Zingara and Elders now. Why run a Dungeon to get, at best, epic? The Dungeons should have rewards towards gear which are entirely unique.

Such as Dungeon Boss Elder Fragments that result in one of the boss's weapon or armor cosmetics. Or even unique abilities from the boss itself. Imagine if fire wizards could earn Meghrin's spell and cast fire runes underneath enemies?

Gear sets! If you collect and equip multiple pieces of the same set you start earning compounding boosts.

Gear Perks. Gear with interesting perks such as bonus loot chance or zingara rarity increase. As you fight with this gear on it levels and the perk multiplies.

New stats! Imagine interesting new epic stat runes. People would definitely hunt for these if they were dynamic and interesting.

Spell Mods! Modifiers to existing spells. Imagine if you could modify Thunderbolt for example to generate additional threat for each enemy present. People could really customize their spells if we could modify them in slightly different ways.

Dungeon currency! Allow us to buy gear with specific stats, spells, runes or buy cosmetics and consumables for the Dungeon. They cost way too many Mana potions.
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Agree with Kave... plus: The cost of running the dungeons is far too high with mostly no benefit or reward. The changes made were too drastic and took the fun out.
Actually the same is sort of true for the 95 elders, no one wants to attempt them anymore. Time is way too short. There is nothing worse than spending tons of buff's, rezzies, hp and mana pots and get nothing!
 

SprigOfHalcyon

Master Farmer
Royal Guardian
Platform
Android, PC
I read Ivar's link to this: https://www.polygon.com/2020/2/7/21122308/gaming-feedback-complaints-positive-compliments-balance-bugs-how-to-be-heard

And saw this: "
over 90% of players who didn’t get a kill in their first PvP game would never return to play another round. To combat this, the team implemented a system where new players would automatically get the reload damage bonus applied continuously until they scored a kill, after which the bonus would taper off.
"

Maybe, until first dungeon win, rezzies are free?
 

Zyani

Jack Of All Trades
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zyani,Borghilde,Jitlayda+4more
Platform
PC
Please remove the timer... or make it optional ?

the timer only makes people run like headless chickens, it prevents us to make strategies and to have fun... at least that’s how I feel...
Those timers are the reason i NEVER enter dungeons, if there is 1 thing i HATE in games then it is timer quests.

Also it was said once that dungeons would be optional, but … The final quest where you must kill the L95 elders IS IN A FREEKIN DUNGEON!!
 

Glockenfee

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
Glockenfee / Glöckchen
Platform
PC
Last time i tried dungeon with a very good balanced group - 2 weeks ago - and it was a desaster. No chance to do a golden/silver-run.
All Bosses and Mob too much live, too much damage. Before patch same players have no problems, to do the dungeon in a good time.
But now? No chance
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Also it was said once that dungeons would be optional, but … The final quest where you must kill the L95 elders IS IN A FREEKIN DUNGEON!!
It really is, not only have I not gotten any elder fragments ever, I only got the very base reward 2 times. I have no desire to go back.
 
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Halleebell

Squirrel
Characters
Hallee/Freyra
Platform
iOS, PC
The 95 elders are not bad in my opinion reminds me of the old dungys just broken up more. Kill one elder break kill another break. It’s not the timer that’s the problem it’s the lag. As long as you have someone leading your fine. In dungys I see zero reason to run them. The amount of resources used compared to the reward is minimal at best. Atleast with 95 elders you receive items to sell for gold which in turn you can craft more items to run. In dungy dying in the middle is basically game over unless you have a Rez in 95 elders you almost never die with the mobs you die at the boss which means stay dead and you still get credit. Or use a Rez. And keep fighting. I’d rather use my mana/ health and whatnot at 95 cause atleast I know there’s a chance for mount, items to sell for gold and motes to craft with. Along with recipes thoe Iv received one item for my class which is annoying.

if they did dungys like they did 95 elders I can see amuch better turn around and players might start enjoying them again. For boosts/buffs kaves ideas are great along with boosts...as in rewards... this boost last 15 minutes you use half the amount of mana cost on feats... health you regain health this much faster while fighting. Critical hits are this much more powerful.insert what you think is fair. How long the boost last and high the boost is. All good in dungeons only.
 

Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie
Platform
PC
Actually the same is sort of true for the 95 elders, no one wants to attempt them anymore. Time is way too short. There is nothing worse than spending tons of buff's, rezzies, hp and mana pots and get nothing!
Slightly derailing the thread here, but I would like to emphasize the above points. I hit level 95 combat a week or two ago. Since then, I have not seen any pop ups of ANY level 95 elders being killed on my server! Just as players have been scared away from attempting to run the dungeons, so too are the level 95 players not making any attempt to kill the 95 elders.

I think the timed aspect alone plays a major factor in this reluctance.

Dungeons are designed to expect teams of organized and well-built players. Creating a powerful build is seen as a late or end-game activity though. Why would a low level spend gold and sockets to customize their builds when they will outgrow the equipment within a couple of days?

Thus, lower level performance is extremely disproportionate compared to higher level performance. The gap is wide. They are being carried... there is really no two ways about it. They're being carried.
I agree with all of the above. The dungeons would scale better if players had a separate set of dungeon-only gear to equip while in those zones and if there were limitations specific to the dungeons on that set of gear, to help level the playing field (since the level-scaling in the zone isn't having enough of an effect in balancing the performance issues.)
 
Characters
Tiffa, Ruby Wolf
Platform
Android, PC
Best Idea for Fixing the Dungeons is to have all the Otters join in (with real characters level 60 - 80) and help do the dungeon runs on every server to see how we players are doing them. This way they will get some real world data and see how we are in each of the dungeons.
 
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