BBlue

Legendary Hero
Characters
Bulmablue, Bulla S., P.Vegeta, F.Trunks, R.Braun
Platform
Android, PC
I'll probably be with less mana then, I can't craft mana pots 95 yet and they expensive if I could, guess this is nice warning to anyone unable to craft there level mana pots before changes to get cooking, but players might still spam them especially high mana users. Got to many lv.3 mana pots to use in that amount of time, so guess whatever not used better off using them for charter tokens.
 

Klaeklae

Bog Frog
Platform
Android
This actually seems like a buff to mana generation and a nerf to the wallet (for lvl 95 players).

The current lvl 3 pots are cheap but restore 10% instantly. So someone would need a pool of 5500 mana in order to restore the same amount instantly as a rank 19 mana potion would with no additional INT cost to the player. Plus, I don't think most players wait for the full duration of a mana pot to run its course before starting another anyway, so that aspect of the mana regen is a little muted.

Regardless, if there is no cooldown on them, it doesn't really change anything except what level gardener you'll need to get the most bang for your buck. Mana regen skills can still be fully replaced by pots.

So assuming there is no cooldown restriction.. and as long as your bank account holds up, I don't see how this changes gameplay.

-Klaeklae
 
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Zaen

Jack Of All Trades
Characters
Arcaneium, Zaen, Ugh, Vallentine, Quarks.
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
My fire wizard gobbles mana up like candy in raids this will not only be disastrous, it will be really unfair and off putting for many players in several ways.

I use a stack of mana pots per raid so a raid (1 raid ONLY) will cost me around 400g if I was level 95, a 2 hour session of gathering with all blue supplies and premium tools won't get me enough gold to make enough mana pots for 1 single raid.

Alot of players make a living out of selling mana pots because there aren't that many ways to earn gold in the game.

Keeping into consideration how slow it is to level gardening and cooking in comparison to how fast it is to level up combat until you hit the medallion wall or even the level lock wall, this will create a new wall in the game and I'd say that the game already has enough of those, this will be just off putting and adding a new boring and annoying factor to the game where you have to wait until you get your gardening to a certain level to be able to do your role in the game efficiently .

This is a nerf not a fix and I honestly don't think this is the right time for a change in the mana system taking in mind people using tons of mana pots for raids only. But if this does happen I don't see it working without a complete overhaul of how the mana system works, how long gardening takes to level and the cost of mana pots in the game.
 

TheOneTrueGod

Master Gatherer
Platform
iOS
So let me clarify i am and have never hit 90+, I dont know the max mana u can get from gears/buffs. Also I have no clue the mana requirements for raids and elders at END GAME. From everything I read and hear mana pots are used like water for raids and elders at high lvls. They are a constant stable, I honestly see no one buying hp pots. Which makes me very sad. Currently that is good for starting off players because they can grow blueberries and make bank from selling pots. How ever this reduces the value of attaining high lvl skills. Like cooking and gardening so people create alts to farm/craft cheaply. With little time investing to get what they need. Honestly I agree they system needs a rework/balanced. I think the lvl 3 pots need a nerf maybe 5% flat w/ same mana regen or possibly flat 2k over 20sec instead of 30 and NO out of combat bonus. Then buff/scale the 20-40 pots to be better/equal than current lvl 3. Then 60-80lvl gets better than current lvl 3 mana returns like 15-20% flat +
2k over time no out of combat bonuses. Then if u have say highest lvl mana pots those give 20-25% flat with regen as well. LETS ALL BE HONEST You can easily hit lvl 40 cooking in a week with little effort if you are not already there on most toons. Then its work it to develop gardening so u can get higher teir mats. I been playing 9months and my gardening is still not lvl 90 and I planted exotics daily. This would: 1 force people to decide what to grow at higher lvls do they grow mats for pies, mats for mana pots, or verda plants. 2) stop players from abusing alts to grow mats. 3) reward players for there time and energy spent garding. Demand drives markets. This could make max lvl pots 3x affective in raids hypothetical, create a demand but I would also change the amounts of mats required maybe double mats needed. Because a flat 25%, its strong some free soul bound pots are that good. I DO NOT like NPC shop potions that stifles economy. It can help reduce inflation, but I'm not sure if the economy has this issue. Crafting is costly enough with decent gold sync. I havnt seen prices going up too much on raw mats and materials, but $$ items is a good indicator and 9 months ago I could buy vault spaces 600-750g now its 800-850g but this could be just a change in demand because more players on US3 thats a developers job to check.
 

Woodlenelf

Grand Shaman
Characters
Starfoxnes
Platform
Android
Last edited
  • Instant Mana Restore will restore mana 75 + 25 x rank (so that it will be 100 at rank 1 recipe, and 575 at rank 20)
  • Mana Restore over time will restore mana 175 + 75 x rank (so that it will be 250 at rank 1 recipe, and 1675 at rank 20)
  • We will (probably) also remove the damage shield this provides, since that's not really the point of this potion- and doesn't make sense to have a health protection mixed in with a mana boost.

I dont see this as a designer flaw, current version is how we can do raids or elders ez events without having to spend all of our gold. I think crafting mana is essential way of game play. You either buy off the market (players) make your self which is just how mmo are. Below is an option of changing in a way but with a larger bunch to make instead of using just base 3.

Potion nameRequired
level
Mana
restored
SourceIngredients (or Cost)
Potion 1. 5. 140 to 180 Level 25
Potion 2. 14. 280 to 360. Level 30
Potion 3. 22. 455 to 600. Level 35
Potion 4. 31. 700 to 900 Level 45
Potion 5 35 900 to 1500. Level 55
Potion 6 45 1800 to 3000. Level 60
Potion 7 55 3000 to 8000. Level 70
  • Sell mana potions in shop (this is a player suggestion- we removed these a while back from the Shop, but we could put them back in if players request it). Perhaps also find other ways for players to get mana potions (although, again, we don't want to make them so abundant that gameplay is only about spamming them)
(I think this would take gold away from players maybe if it was a lower tier potion but i feel like this takes away from mmo experience)
  • Create a "Mana Well" - an artifact that has ten uses and spawns a special mana well that regens mana for players that stand near it. We would sell it in Shop or for ducats
  • Perhaps rebalance how mana regen and max mana a bit...


(A mana and health artifact would be beneficial but give something better that we equip)
- For tanks and healers rebalance on how fast mana goes because i know in raids and events mana goes so fast just for 1 boss.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Ok, so the basic scenario at the moment, as posted by several players, is that to run raids and or 95 elders, players use (and I quote from other posts here) "hundreds of mana pots a day." Let's just think about that for a second. Hundreds, plural, must as a minimum mean at least two hundred pots, which translates into needing to grow at least 200 bluberries a day. Even assuming you can grow say three harvests a day, that means an absolute minimum of three characters growing blueberries constantly. For players who only manage to harvest twice a day, that increases to a minimum of 4 characters solely growing blueberries. Let's be realistic for a second here, do any of us really believe Devs intended each actively played character to require a team of three supporting characters just growing bluberries all day?

So, instead of complaining about a change that, if we are honest we all know is long overdue, how about we try to suggest ways to improve mana management other than spamming mana pots all the time?

Suggestion 1 - Improve the effectiveness of the mana regen stat - currently mana regen is painfully slow even out of combat and in combat is just plain pathetic. More to the point, the mana stat, even when maxed out, barely makes a flicker of difference. So first off, I would suggest increasing the benefits from actually investing in the mana regen stat, either on gear or through talents.

Suggestion 2 - Improve the benfits in mana cost reduction from the mana efficiency stat- again, the issue right now is that there is no reason to "waste" points or stat options on this, because gulping down half a dozen mana pots a minute renders it worthless, so nobody bothers.

Suggestion 3 - maybe increase base mana across the board, so that with sensible allocation of mana related stats, and careful use of feats, players don't actually run out of mana so fast they feel they need to gulp down mana pots ever three seconds.

Suggestion 4 - restore the old "spirit charm" spell that wizards used to have in years gone by, and make it as good as it used to be - whereby a couple of wizards could easily boost a party's spirit regen (as it was called back then) to the point where players hardly ever ran out. (While we're at it, something like the old priest's swift robe would be good too.)

Now, the problem is going to be that having to actually invest in mana related stuff is going to reduce the dps output of many players. I'm probably going to need to find a very deep hole to hide in after saying this, but to put bluntly, that's because many high level players have totally unbalanced builds. The ability to spam mana pots renders any points or stats spent on mana (and to a lesser extent health) wasted, and hence players have builds concentrated solely on damage and only viable because of the spamming of mana pots. Sorry guys and gals but it's totally unsustainable. The whole combat side of the game is totally unbalanced because of the reliance on mana pots.

Limit the use of mana pots, adapt builds to sustain mana, reduce dps, hence reduce the damage and health of mobs. to compensate for players' reduced dps. RESTORE BALANCE, make room for actual tactics and mechanics, not just massive dps and then let's all get back to a game we love.
 

Ildranach

Squirrel
Platform
Android, PC
Ok, so the basic scenario at the moment, as posted by several players, is that to run raids and or 95 elders, players use (and I quote from other posts here) "hundreds of mana pots a day." Let's just think about that for a second. Hundreds, plural, must as a minimum mean at least two hundred pots, which translates into needing to grow at least 200 bluberries a day. Even assuming you can grow say three harvests a day, that means an absolute minimum of three characters growing blueberries constantly. For players who only manage to harvest twice a day, that increases to a minimum of 4 characters solely growing blueberries. Let's be realistic for a second here, do any of us really believe Devs intended each actively played character to require a team of three supporting characters just growing bluberries all day?

So, instead of complaining about a change that, if we are honest we all know is long overdue, how about we try to suggest ways to improve mana management other than spamming mana pots all the time?

Suggestion 1 - Improve the effectiveness of the mana regen stat - currently mana regen is painfully slow even out of combat and in combat is just plain pathetic. More to the point, the mana stat, even when maxed out, barely makes a flicker of difference. So first off, I would suggest increasing the benefits from actually investing in the mana regen stat, either on gear or through talents.

Suggestion 2 - Improve the benfits in mana cost reduction from the mana efficiency stat- again, the issue right now is that there is no reason to "waste" points or stat options on this, because gulping down half a dozen mana pots a minute renders it worthless, so nobody bothers.

Suggestion 3 - maybe increase base mana across the board, so that with sensible allocation of mana related stats, and careful use of feats, players don't actually run out of mana so fast they feel they need to gulp down mana pots ever three seconds.

Suggestion 4 - restore the old "spirit charm" spell that wizards used to have in years gone by, and make it as good as it used to be - whereby a couple of wizards could easily boost a party's spirit regen (as it was called back then) to the point where players hardly ever ran out. (While we're at it, something like the old priest's swift robe would be good too.)

Now, the problem is going to be that having to actually invest in mana related stuff is going to reduce the dps output of many players. I'm probably going to need to find a very deep hole to hide in after saying this, but to put bluntly, that's because many high level players have totally unbalanced builds. The ability to spam mana pots renders any points or stats spent on mana (and to a lesser extent health) wasted, and hence players have builds concentrated solely on damage and only viable because of the spamming of mana pots. Sorry guys and gals but it's totally unsustainable. The whole combat side of the game is totally unbalanced because of the reliance on mana pots.

Limit the use of mana pots, adapt builds to sustain mana, reduce dps, hence reduce the damage and health of mobs. to compensate for players' reduced dps. RESTORE BALANCE, make room for actual tactics and mechanics, not just massive dps and then let's all get back to a game we love.
Majenta.
With all due respect.
This change is actively making the mana pots worse.
Exacerbating a problem that the level 3 pots are barely covering as a bandaid fix.
We are nearly -required- to have alts growing blueberries because mana-related stats are worthless, and I fully agree with you on that matter.
The proposed solution does not mitigate this flaw; it actually reduces the effectiveness of the pots themselves without changing anything about the mana stats.
Combat stats are woefully unbalanced and the only way around it right now is to spam pots.
Mana stats need rework to allow players to build actual tactics and mechanics.
You cannot nerf the bandaid solution of pots before you fix the cause of the problem.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Majenta.
With all due respect.
This change is actively making the mana pots worse.
Exacerbating a problem that the level 3 pots are barely covering as a bandaid fix.
We are nearly -required- to have alts growing blueberries because mana-related stats are worthless, and I fully agree with you on that matter.
The proposed solution does not mitigate this flaw; it actually reduces the effectiveness of the pots themselves without changing anything about the mana stats.
Combat stats are woefully unbalanced and the only way around it right now is to spam pots.
Mana stats need rework to allow players to build actual tactics and mechanics.
You cannot nerf the bandaid solution of pots before you fix the cause of the problem.
I agree. Which is why I am suggesting we acknowledge that the problem needs fixing, and start suggesting ways to fix it.
 
Characters
BashaDrake, Elmeti, Knytro
Platform
Android
My main is a level 95- 5 rebirth Lightning Warrior. I have a base mana of 4710, and a base Mana Regen of 6.7 mana/second. That means it takes almost 12 (!!) Minutes to fully replenish my mana without mana pots.
This is what needs to be addressed before reworking current mana pots.
 

Simplicity

Master Cook
Platform
iOS, PC
I don’t like changes. However, it seems that they are coming.
It would be awesome to add something intelligent here, but it’s not happening. Probably not tomorrow either.
There are some good suggestions, though, and I hope something will be implemented that won’t make the game of which I’m so fond unplayable.
 
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Wait

Great Adventurer
Characters
Wait,Bubble O Seven, Powunow, Wait 4Bubbles, and Baby Bubble
Platform
iOS, PC
Okay. I definitely feel there is a much needed mana overhaul needed as some classes are needing much more mana because it is being used up compared to others on raids and elders. This impacts the group dynamics for sure. Maybe having mana pots/mana boosts specifically for Raids, mana pots/boosts specifically for Elders, mana pots/boosts specifically for Event zones, and then mana pots/boosts just for regular daily bounty runs.
 
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Characters
King Sofiène (Hybrid hunter) King Sofiene 2 (Fury warrior) US3
Platform
PC
  • Instant Mana Restore will restore mana 75 + 25 x rank (so that it will be 100 at rank 1 recipe, and 575 at rank 20)
  • Mana Restore over time will restore mana 175 + 75 x rank (so that it will be 250 at rank 1 recipe, and 1675 at rank 20)
These changes can help lvl 95 players a bit because they will gain 2.250k mana during combat if they use a rank 20 mana potion instead of 1k only.
However, lower lvl players have the same mana costs per feat as the lvl 95 players (if not higher due to worse gear) . They wont be able to use the rank 20 pots due to their lvl restriction. This will give them a hard time dealing with mana management issues due because they will have to use low rank mana potions that give less mana overall .This is not fair.
Most players are only making the level 3 version of these- the Minor Mana Potion that uses blueberries since it provides benefits nearly as good as the top level versions of this recipe line.
Suggestion : If you really want to make these changes to fix the mana potions design then I suggest making the mana gains from a rank x potion get lower as your hero lvl gets higher. That should push all the players to use the mana potions with the closest lvl to their hero lvl as to gain more mana and it should keep the battle fair for all players with all lvls.

Important note ! : Making the mana potions unaffected by the player state ( in combat or not) doesn't fix the always in combat raid problem. We still wont be able to use fleets and Dash. You should fix that before doing any other changes.
 

Cyndzia

Citizen
Platform
PC
@Damon Otter you didn't use the full statement from the player though. The full quote is "It's neither good to spam mana pots and spend half the time gardening to support it nor spending 100 mana pots to support the battles." And in the difference lies the rub. The battles force use of too much mana, that needs to be fixed either before or in conjunction with any proposed change to mana potions. Either "activities" (spells, feats, runes, etcetera) cost too much to activate even at a high level, or players do not have enough of a mana pool, or mana takes too long to regen.

If the issue is truly people are using the level 3 mana pots and they should be using level appropriate mana potions then wouldn't the fix not be "nerfing" all the mana pots, but rather buffing the higher level mana pots so they give a better return on investment than the level 3 ones give currently ? If the concern is "we don't want to up mana regen out of combat" then have a potion that specifically lasts a long time and ups mana regen significantly while in combat

"Fixing" the mana potion problem by having potions give less mana, and cost more is not a fix and will likely not be received well by many.
 

GoGoGadget

Servant of Mallok
Characters
GoGoGadgetGo
Platform
Android, PC
Just make Will and Intellelligence better in conjuction with mana pots. High Will more you get out of mana pots and the higher Intelligence the higher flat mana gain from pots. Atm propably no one uses these stats just becouse mana pots are too easy to make and spamming is best option.
 

Lyrra

Huntress
Characters
Lyrra, Lythe, Livelie, Chicken Little, xFURIx
Platform
iOS, Android
If I'm understanding all this correctly the solutions being proffered all involve players having to buy mana pots. Mana is essential to all classes... you cannot play without it... not only that, but all classes go through stacks of mana on a daily basis. Some higher level raids take an entire stack just to get the win in one raid.

You will be making it necessary to buy mana in order to progress... That is pay to play in my book.

My solution? Give every class a way to restore mana... similar to the options we have to restore health; e.g., a nature hunter has Gift of the Dryad... All classes need something similar for both health and mana.

Do keep mana pots that we can make by growing the main ingredients. I agree that higher level pots should give more restore than lower levels... but what you are suggesting above makes matters worse for us... not better. The percentages are not high enough to be effective.

And please give 95s a mana pot that does not require blight motes to make.
 
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