Damon Otter

Mad Otter Games
Developer
Hi,
There are cooking recipes to make mana potions. These are Minor Mana Potion, Lesser Mana Potion, and so on. Most players are only making the level 3 version of these- the Minor Mana Potion that uses blueberries since it provides benefits nearly as good as the top level versions of this recipe line.

This is due to a design bug (our fault)- we had set the rank for the mana restore effect all to the same value, and so they all provide a 10% instant mana restore, regardless of level.

This is not good gameplay, as one player put it: "It's neither good to spam mana pots and spend half the time gardening to support it."

We want to change the Mana Potions so that higher ranks, provide greater benefits, and move away from a flat 10% boost. Instead, mana will be restored a fixed amount, based on the level of the Mana Potion:
  • Instant Mana Restore will restore mana 75 + 25 x rank (so that it will be 100 at rank 1 recipe, and 575 at rank 20)
  • Mana Restore over time will restore mana 175 + 75 x rank (so that it will be 250 at rank 1 recipe, and 1675 at rank 20)
  • We will (probably) also remove the damage shield this provides, since that's not really the point of this potion- and doesn't make sense to have a health protection mixed in with a mana boost.
We realize that this will disrupt the gameplay strategy of some players, so we wanted to let you know of this upcoming change. Most likely this change will come with the next major build in early February. With this warning, players will have a chance to use up the blueberry mana potions they have stockpiled.

We also realize this could leave players with not as much mana as before, and so we're thinking about solutions for this. If you have thoughts on a good way to rebalance mana, let us know. Some ideas:
  • Sell mana potions in the shop (this is a player suggestion- we removed these a while back from the Shop, but we could put them back in if players request it). Perhaps also find other ways for players to get mana potions (although, again, we don't want to make them so abundant that gameplay is only about spamming them)
  • Create a "Mana Well" - an artifact that has ten uses and spawns a special mana well that regens mana for players that stand near it. We would sell it in Shop or for ducats
  • Perhaps rebalance how mana regen and max mana a bit...
Please let us know your thoughts!
Thanks, Damon
 
Characters
BashaDrake, Elmeti, Knytro
Platform
Android
As stated, this change would be disastrous for most players.
At rank 20, your new potions would only restore a total of 2250 mana compared to 3k now. During Raids and 95 Elders, many players burn through well over 100 potions. With the new potions, player damage would drop drastically which would require a complete reworking of enemy damage and health to even come close to where we are currently.
Mana Regen is already difficult enough, especially during combat. I encourage you to consider boosting base mana regen, perhaps tenfold. Mana potions right now are NOT optional, but essential for Raids and 95 Elders.
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Besides the ideas you mention (which I love BTW) maybe also sell a lesser mana and seperate hp potion in the game for gold at the black market vendor? This will cover the people who don't want to garden and don't have crowns.

I like the mana well idea... it sounds interesting!
 

Ildranach

Squirrel
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
  • Instant Mana Restore will restore mana 75 + 25 x rank (so that it will be 100 at rank 1 recipe, and 575 at rank 20)
  • Mana Restore over time will restore mana 175 + 75 x rank (so that it will be 250 at rank 1 recipe, and 1675 at rank 20)
Current mana restore is 10% + 3k mana out of combat, or 10%+1k mana in combat, 10% scaling with Intellect.
At rank 20 with this proposal, you would restore 2250 flat. (edit: oops arithmetic error, mb)
Not only does this not help, this outright nerfs the current mana potion system, which players are already complaining about being too weak.
If mana regen stats and mana pool stats are reworked, this might be feasible.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
The real problem lies with the disproportionate spamming of mana pots which is pretty much the only strategy required in the game. The purpose of mana is to reduce the ability of players to simply spam spells and feats ad nauseam. Currently, the overuse of spamming of mana pots negates this completely and undermines pretty much the entire combat system.

Yes, the fixed mana from pots could be seen as a design flaw, but the much bigger flaw is in the lack of a sufficiently long cooldown upon use of said pots. Never mind tinkering with amounts of mana, simply add a 2 minute cooldown on the pots.
This will render raids and level 95 elders etc impossible, but once the masking effect of players spamming mana is removed, it will be possible to see what else needs to be fixed. Comabt will never be even remotely balanced unless or until mana is allowed to perform its game function - which is to limit the overuse of feats.

I would suggest that mana regen rates need to be increased dramatically, and in particular the unnecessary "in combat" status of raids be removed if ANY changes to mana pots are proposed. The reality remains, that until the spamming is prevented through a meaningful cooldown, the only thing this change will achieve is players stockpiling higher level mana pots instead of the lower level ones.
 

Jytal

Servant of Mallok
Platform
iOS
To add to PlatinumPlatypus's point of how this is disastrous for most players, currently people have garden alts which only grow blueberries for mana pots to support players raids, 95 elders, and just in general ALL combat. They will not have high gardening levels and therefore their potions will be ineffective. To reiterate, almost a stack of mana pot is used per 95 to most classes, and easily stacks during raids.
To new players, one recommendation given to them to gain gold early on is to grow blueberries to sell to other players because it is something they can do at very low levels while being in high demand. Changing it such that blueberry mana potions are almost useless and in some cases is just enough for part of a skill rotation, there will be low to no demand for blueberries anymore.
There needs to be other avenues to obtaining mana potions other than just crown shop, simply put, it encourages pay to play. Mana pots are required to play in combat and it is by stacks of mana pots, not just a few potions.
I struggle to find what/who this change helps. I understand that this is to fix a design flaw with mana potions in the first place but there is more harm than benefit from this current change.
Changes to mana regeneration and costs need to be looked at and even changed. If mana potions are being changed, low level mana potions still need to have relevance which scale with higher levels to be at least the same or greater than current potions.
 

Stella StormSong

Huntress
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
My main reason for Blueberry Pot addiction is the cost of crafting, if I'm getting 1K mana over time regardless of which crafted pot I use, then Im using the one that costs 3 pennies to make. Its been my practice to have my lower level alts grow the blueberries and craft the pots, they get garden and cooking xp and I save coin.
 

Felina

Adventurer
I would like to see a review of spell costs for fire wizards in relation to the proposed changes. They seem way out of kilter with other class' spell costs. I play all classes and have all mana cost boosts that I'm able to craft onto my gear, but use at least 3 to 4 times as many mana pots on my wiz to operate at the same damage levels as my other toons.
 

Panthera

Grand Priestess
Platform
Android, PC, Steam
I would like to see a review of spell costs for fire wizards in relation to the proposed changes. They seem way out of kilter with other class' spell costs. I play all classes and have all mana cost boosts that I'm able to craft onto my gear, but use at least 3 to 4 times as many mana pots on my wiz to operate at the same damage levels as my other toons.
As a healing Priest I find that my healing spell costs drain my mana very fast especially the ones that I use to heal groups, very rarely is my damage level as high as it is on my nature hunter or even my water shaman (which is also a healing class) my highest damage level for least mana costs is probably my warrior or possibly my shaman
 
Characters
Tiffa, Kitty Witch
Platform
Android, PC
  • Instant Mana Restore will restore mana 75 + 25 x rank (so that it will be 100 at rank 1 recipe, and 575 at rank 20)
  • Mana Restore over time will restore mana 175 + 75 x rank (so that it will be 250 at rank 1 recipe, and 1675 at rank 20)
At level 95 the instant will restore (75 + (25 x 95)) = 2450 mana points
and the Mana over time will restore (175 + (75 x 95)) = 7300 Mana points
For a total of 9750 Mana points in 30 secs.
I'm not sure of the numbers for level 95 Mana Mana Potions but any improvement to mana pots need to be better that it as a base.
Raids and (5 Elders need to have the same recovery rate as out of combat rate because they are are on timers and players do not have time to wait and let their Mana recover.
 

sirbabbo

Warrior
Platform
iOS
Wait we have people complaining that they have to grow things to make things that help you in combat or make gold in the beginning, which requires you to give time?

My only suggestion is:

Mana pot situation is fine and never had an issue. Maybe lvl 3 mana pots to lvl 30 give 5% back mana with 1000 over time, lvl 33 to 66 give 10% with 2500 over time and lvl 69 to 95 give 15%.with 5000 over time. Keep the exp per one and keep the shield bonus stat.

Put I think changes would be an issue to a lot of players tbh.
 

Sundari

Wizard
Platform
Android
I would like to see a review of spell costs for fire wizards in relation to the proposed changes. They seem way out of kilter with other class' spell costs. I play all classes and have all mana cost boosts that I'm able to craft onto my gear, but use at least 3 to 4 times as many mana pots on my wiz to operate at the same damage levels as my other toons.
With 4 damage toons I agree. Fire wizards are way more expensive then the others. And as they often pick up agro..necessary to use multiple pots to survive. Also there is a serious timing issue so that u benefit from the constant regen....as slow and minuscule as it is. I dont think having toons dead in the water is a fix for spamming feats. Slower gameplay will lower the appeal of the game. As a person who uses all available feats per weapon simply not to be standing doing white damage waiting around....this is gonna reduce my attraction drastically.
 

Squonk

Warrior
Platform
Android, PC
By rank 20 mana pots does it mean the blighted lvl 95 recipe? (assuming it is because there are 20 mana pot recipes and that is the highest)

If so it will now cost 4+ gold and blight motes per mana pot to achieve a similar result as you currently get for 10 copper.

Really hoping I am misunderstanding the rank number being used as otherwise I doubt lvl 95 players will be doing many raids or elder runs
 

Ildranach

Squirrel
Platform
Android, PC
At level 95 the instant will restore (75 + (25 x 95)) = 2450 mana points
and the Mana over time will restore (175 + (75 x 95)) = 7300 Mana points
For a total of 9750 Mana points in 30 secs.
I'm not sure of the numbers for level 95 Mana Mana Potions but any improvement to mana pots need to be better that it as a base.
Raids and (5 Elders need to have the same recovery rate as out of combat rate because they are are on timers and players do not have time to wait and let their Mana recover.
Last I counted there were only 20 mana fruits available for growth, not 95.
 
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Fal Vorad

Adventurer
Platform
Android
Players: We are having long-term major problems with mana management, sometimes going through 100+ mana potions in one sitting.
Otters: Here's our solution: let's NERF THE MANA POTIONS! And, incidentally, remove a significant source of income for low-level players. Not to mention confuse everybody in the process.

Yep. That'll go well.

Disaster is putting it mildly. It's at least a disaster and a half.

Please know that I respect this dev team and appreciate that they are looking for solutions. But let's be very clear that the plan for mana potions as currently outlined is not a solution.
 
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