Ozul
Citizen
Platform
iOS
Last edited
I think with the new horde, finally something that is going in the right direction, maybe we can adapt this to an arena type sub game. The concept of the horde is great, with bosses, and mobs or what I like to call chaos is great. Lag isn’t fun. I’ve always loved kicking lord pizza rear end solo when helping others and never got why this hasn’t been adapted into something more the concept. Again horde problem imo is lag, and I think restricting it into a new arena type battle will be something that adds a new dimension to the game With less lag.
I feel like ardent needs an old Roman or Greek arena with a portal to do combat in there. npcs will be in there to select the type of arena you like to do, and then it ports you into the arena. There will be a middle column to press that you essentially have to attack to start the chaos. T his where I feel the creative dev team can think of all the mechanics and unpredictable sequences that can happen into this one arena battle.
However, the gear that you have has to be earned and can be only used in this arena. So yes first time, ya have only a weapon. But as you progress you will earn currency to get bette gear with gnogments already placed.
let’s break down this new arena:
Romanos numerous (npc). This is a guide to the arena on what is going on. They’ll break down the different choices you can have in selecting the arena type of battle. Friends can participate but is capped at 12. Only 12 players can enter the arena with 3 instances. This arena can be easy, medium, hard, brutal, and impossible. The idea is to have people select the same arena battle and join in, but if one selects a different difficulty then that makes an instance for that type. No mixing and matching. All of this is explained by the npc.
Spartamours (npc). Currency exchange for gear and weapons. only gear allowed is through him. You can start off with a weapon, but everything else from now on is through him. He also can exchange the area currency to red doubloons and/or raid currency at exchange of 5:1. The types of gear you can purchase are listed:
Attacking gear, Defensive gear and balanced gear.
Attacking gear focus on all the attacking stats and glyphs in the game, but at a cost of losing out on defense. Dps toons
Defensive gear: focus on all the defensive stats and glyphs in the game, but at a cost of losing out on attack. Tanks
Balanced gear: has a mix of attack and defense stats and glyphs, ojust a medium ground to survive but do damage. Support and healing classes.
These three will be broken down to the type of rarity’s:
Common: cheap, with basic stats no support runes but the mastery rune.
Rare: average, average stats and one perm glyph, with 3 support runes, one is mastery, two is of random of added runes from the attack, defense of balance that is either a glyph or stat, or both. Example. I chose attack gear armor: base stats; Armor, Brutality, expertise with Flux glyph. Support runes: Shadow priest, poise and brutality.
Epic: good, good stats and two perm glyphs, with 4 support runes, one is mastery and three is of random added runes from the attack, defense or balance that is either a glyph or stat, or all.
Legendary: great, great states and two perm glyphs, with 5 support runes
True legendary: Highest, best stats and two perm glyphs, added in prep item, with 6 support runes.
Gear will be traded as currency with high prices on high gear. Gear is random stats but promises to not give anything else. Might be easy for the gear to post the stats and taking out the randomnes. So if a true legendary gear has: base stats armor, brutality, expertise, poise, flux, with support runes, mastery, poise, brutality, expertise, flux, jugg. That will be what it is. Might be easier to code.
Idea is to choose wisely with this gear with the difficulty but to educate players what good gear is. The arena gear can only be used in said arena environment. But this is where people can learn how attacking, defensive and blended glyphs and stats can work for them to progress. Unfortunately for early gamers, this would need to be addressed that they would need an Update selection on all gear as well. So purchasing at lvl 30, and your now lvl 45, with the currency you can exchange to update to lvl 45.
Types of difficult:
Selcting the type of difficulty means you have 20 mins for each one. Based of who, what gear, what rotations, and difficulty the player can progress and earn currency. Passing the time means you get the rewards, and based of difficulty a random chance of gear. Not passing you get nothing (prevents players going in and failing on purpose to earn currency).
easy- scaling is like bronze raid, survive the arena and you get small reward of common gear and currency.
medium- scaling is like gold in raids, survive the arena and you get a better reward of rare gear and currency.
hard - scaling is like heroic raids, survive the arena and you get a reward of epic gear and currency.
brutal - scaling is like heroic 50 raids, only legendary gear will get you through and lots of communication with teamwork. Earn legendary gear and currency. Pass ten minutes, get half the currency as reward.
impossible - Says it self, just the hardest experience ever. Like heroic 99 with dungeoneering Al lvl 1, with common gear and no support runes. Only true legendary gear will help you but again it’s designed for no one to survive the 20 mins. After 10 mins you earn half the currency. Survive 15 mins get the currency reward. After 15 mins it’s impossible to get to 20 but if so, then earn a true legendary item and double currency.
Scaling:
: based of how many people and if in the wrong lvl it will be as if your a 95. So if your a lvl 35, bosses in harder content will hit like if your a 95. So unfortunatly if you have advanced gear at lvl lower then 95, you won’t survive in higher arena battles.
if it’s too easy, add more difficulty to the harder level.
devs can be creative in this of all types of content we have.
Kicker:
Its a 3 day reset on all levels. Idea is not for people to always stay in, but to earn it over time. The currency can be exchange to re doubloon or raid currency via the npc.
Only currency resizes are allowed but only allowed one. Regular ones are a no. You die, you die. This is the point.
No full health’s or manas are allowed. Only the npc can sell you two of these at a time. Scorns are Now disabled.
All levels are welcome, and sorry but the idea is failure based off difficult Approaches and nerfs aren’t allowed if you fail a impossible arena with no gear or too low of a level. The easy route is where you need to go. Harsh but it’s a survival type of experience.
Solo, might be tough for some toon types, but it is what it is tbh. However it can be scaled off of solo if you choose to do it.
Hope I covered a lot. It’s just a suggestion and be cool to see introduced with the impossible level with people failing at it. Laughs. But hey gives something to talk about. might be too much to ask for. So a raid like this might be a good compromise.
I feel like ardent needs an old Roman or Greek arena with a portal to do combat in there. npcs will be in there to select the type of arena you like to do, and then it ports you into the arena. There will be a middle column to press that you essentially have to attack to start the chaos. T his where I feel the creative dev team can think of all the mechanics and unpredictable sequences that can happen into this one arena battle.
However, the gear that you have has to be earned and can be only used in this arena. So yes first time, ya have only a weapon. But as you progress you will earn currency to get bette gear with gnogments already placed.
let’s break down this new arena:
Romanos numerous (npc). This is a guide to the arena on what is going on. They’ll break down the different choices you can have in selecting the arena type of battle. Friends can participate but is capped at 12. Only 12 players can enter the arena with 3 instances. This arena can be easy, medium, hard, brutal, and impossible. The idea is to have people select the same arena battle and join in, but if one selects a different difficulty then that makes an instance for that type. No mixing and matching. All of this is explained by the npc.
Spartamours (npc). Currency exchange for gear and weapons. only gear allowed is through him. You can start off with a weapon, but everything else from now on is through him. He also can exchange the area currency to red doubloons and/or raid currency at exchange of 5:1. The types of gear you can purchase are listed:
Attacking gear, Defensive gear and balanced gear.
Attacking gear focus on all the attacking stats and glyphs in the game, but at a cost of losing out on defense. Dps toons
Defensive gear: focus on all the defensive stats and glyphs in the game, but at a cost of losing out on attack. Tanks
Balanced gear: has a mix of attack and defense stats and glyphs, ojust a medium ground to survive but do damage. Support and healing classes.
These three will be broken down to the type of rarity’s:
Common: cheap, with basic stats no support runes but the mastery rune.
Rare: average, average stats and one perm glyph, with 3 support runes, one is mastery, two is of random of added runes from the attack, defense of balance that is either a glyph or stat, or both. Example. I chose attack gear armor: base stats; Armor, Brutality, expertise with Flux glyph. Support runes: Shadow priest, poise and brutality.
Epic: good, good stats and two perm glyphs, with 4 support runes, one is mastery and three is of random added runes from the attack, defense or balance that is either a glyph or stat, or all.
Legendary: great, great states and two perm glyphs, with 5 support runes
True legendary: Highest, best stats and two perm glyphs, added in prep item, with 6 support runes.
Gear will be traded as currency with high prices on high gear. Gear is random stats but promises to not give anything else. Might be easy for the gear to post the stats and taking out the randomnes. So if a true legendary gear has: base stats armor, brutality, expertise, poise, flux, with support runes, mastery, poise, brutality, expertise, flux, jugg. That will be what it is. Might be easier to code.
Idea is to choose wisely with this gear with the difficulty but to educate players what good gear is. The arena gear can only be used in said arena environment. But this is where people can learn how attacking, defensive and blended glyphs and stats can work for them to progress. Unfortunately for early gamers, this would need to be addressed that they would need an Update selection on all gear as well. So purchasing at lvl 30, and your now lvl 45, with the currency you can exchange to update to lvl 45.
Types of difficult:
Selcting the type of difficulty means you have 20 mins for each one. Based of who, what gear, what rotations, and difficulty the player can progress and earn currency. Passing the time means you get the rewards, and based of difficulty a random chance of gear. Not passing you get nothing (prevents players going in and failing on purpose to earn currency).
easy- scaling is like bronze raid, survive the arena and you get small reward of common gear and currency.
medium- scaling is like gold in raids, survive the arena and you get a better reward of rare gear and currency.
hard - scaling is like heroic raids, survive the arena and you get a reward of epic gear and currency.
brutal - scaling is like heroic 50 raids, only legendary gear will get you through and lots of communication with teamwork. Earn legendary gear and currency. Pass ten minutes, get half the currency as reward.
impossible - Says it self, just the hardest experience ever. Like heroic 99 with dungeoneering Al lvl 1, with common gear and no support runes. Only true legendary gear will help you but again it’s designed for no one to survive the 20 mins. After 10 mins you earn half the currency. Survive 15 mins get the currency reward. After 15 mins it’s impossible to get to 20 but if so, then earn a true legendary item and double currency.
Scaling:
: based of how many people and if in the wrong lvl it will be as if your a 95. So if your a lvl 35, bosses in harder content will hit like if your a 95. So unfortunatly if you have advanced gear at lvl lower then 95, you won’t survive in higher arena battles.
if it’s too easy, add more difficulty to the harder level.
devs can be creative in this of all types of content we have.
Kicker:
Its a 3 day reset on all levels. Idea is not for people to always stay in, but to earn it over time. The currency can be exchange to re doubloon or raid currency via the npc.
Only currency resizes are allowed but only allowed one. Regular ones are a no. You die, you die. This is the point.
No full health’s or manas are allowed. Only the npc can sell you two of these at a time. Scorns are Now disabled.
All levels are welcome, and sorry but the idea is failure based off difficult Approaches and nerfs aren’t allowed if you fail a impossible arena with no gear or too low of a level. The easy route is where you need to go. Harsh but it’s a survival type of experience.
Solo, might be tough for some toon types, but it is what it is tbh. However it can be scaled off of solo if you choose to do it.
Hope I covered a lot. It’s just a suggestion and be cool to see introduced with the impossible level with people failing at it. Laughs. But hey gives something to talk about. might be too much to ask for. So a raid like this might be a good compromise.
Sumi
Arch Wizard
Characters
Sumia, Sumie, Sumii, Sumio, Sumiu
Platform
iOS, PC
Ooo yeah! A place where all players can have the same level of pre-determined gear while also being side content, it'll actually be a test of players' skill vs gear+"skill"!! woo that sounds fun. i wouldn't make too many levels of gear though... if the idea is for it to be a place where anyone can use pre-determined gear to accomplish certain repeatable but slightly randomized content to test players skills and have fun and be busy, then it's probably best for gear to have determined stats, there not be too many levels of 'rarity'/quality, the 3-day it resets thing is a little whack as that'll only be ok for people who only play the game all day (it's better for people who play the game all day everyday to be bored than it is for people who only have a few hours every few days to be overwhelmed and feel hopeless). Fun idea if it's made to be totally fair all-around though.
Drakz
Legendary Hero
Characters
Drakz, Zelior, Slowburn, Scab, Drakzy
Platform
PC
well with todays society even something as simple as an arena will breed toxicity among some players which will spill over into the normal game play even without a coin shop to be stronger that's just how the peeps are these days. The scaling process is a touchy one since. lets face it, they havn't even got the scaling right in raids and EZ's yet. With that said me personally as a person who absolutely detest pvp unless the game is an all out pvp with toxicity expected. I do think if pvp was added to the game the arena idea is the only way to do it and the only way that most of the community here would continue playing the game and you have to realize some players would actually move on. I say that because some players are only still here because of the community and its values. Not the gameplay or the content. I still give you props for your thought out idea and do see the possibility of it being something for the future.
Dis
Warrior
Characters
Disdayne Skorn Ridicule DisInterested
Platform
iOS, PC
I've said in the past the Blackfury Gorge would be a perfect location for wave after wave of bosses attacking you. Fight for as long as you can stay alive.
Sinjin
Jack Of All Trades
Platform
iOS
I kinda dig discussions about games & game theory (the what and how) and the psychology behind gameplay (the why we even bother), so I commend you on the deliberation you put into your op. (The when and where of gaming are obvious and less frequently discussed; ‘whenever we can, wherever we are’, lol.)
When anyone mentions PvP, it’s usually via some mechanism that permits PK. Some suggestions limit the conditions where it can occur (i.e., requiring mutual consent, limited to specific non-quest areas [e.g., arena], sometimes with/sometimes without the ability to loot other players, etc.) but under the hood, they usually preserve player classes… and therein lies the rub.
Classes were designed to compliment each other and not intended to be balanced against each other. So, any PvP that preserves PvE classes also has that imbalance baked in. Meaning, it’s not rock-paper-scissors, where each has an equal chance to win; it’s a deck of cards and only your face value (in this case, player class) decides the outcome. As examples, any dps class will strictly dominate ice wizard in dps; Holy Priest strictly dominates Water Shaman (by any objective measurement: priests are higher in dps, heal output, the effectiveness of the bonuses they provide to the group, etc). Any player that has played in group content sufficiently long enough will be able to provide their own examples.
In cooperative gameplay, it’s not strictly necessary that the classes be balanced. I’ll grant that Ice wizards are still viable, and even fun to play … though they are objectively being carried in group play (they receive the same rewards as any other party member, but their contribution to the group is less). Now, so long as people don’t bring up the fact that Ice Wizards suck by choice (they could always choose to be fire wizards, after all), everyone rolls merrily along.
Now, this isn’t (just) me trying to carry water for Ice Wizards. If you have 5 classes that do a thing (say, ‘perform in a dps role’), and they don’t all do the thing in exactly the same way, (which, lets admit it, is about as boring as watching the computer play itself in Pong) then someone’s thing (in this case, ‘relative dps output’) is going to be (at least situationally) better than someone else’s.
That ‘relative class balance’ problem only comes into play when you have to have each class be able to compete against each other. It’s not a small thing; it would require a round of changes to bring the classes ‘into balance’ (relative to each other), and then require ongoing maintenance as it would impact every class when a change is made to any class in the future.
Some players are against PvP on the premise that ‘it really doesn’t fit V&H’ because the game leans hard to cooperative gameplay (evidenced by the amount of group content, which has only increased with the addition of hordes and empowered ladders) but competitive gameplay is limited to just Raid Leaderboard. I’m in this camp (PvP doesn’t belong here), but mostly because:
1) balancing the classes so that they were competitive against each other would require fundamental changes to almost every class, and
2) at the end of the day, the number of customers you lose from adding PvP could potentially be higher than the number you gain by adding PvP.
So… forgive me for kinda taking your idea and throwing it on it’s head, but… I feel what your proposal does is take a part of the problem with PvP (addressing the problem relative gear/feat variants/buffs cause) and addresses it (by putting those items n an NPC that each has equal access to)… but ignores the problems of class balance.
What if, instead of preserving the classes, but letting them compete in an arena… what if… players entering the arena (or a raid, or even elders) decide if they want to play as their class, or as the NPC?
When anyone mentions PvP, it’s usually via some mechanism that permits PK. Some suggestions limit the conditions where it can occur (i.e., requiring mutual consent, limited to specific non-quest areas [e.g., arena], sometimes with/sometimes without the ability to loot other players, etc.) but under the hood, they usually preserve player classes… and therein lies the rub.
Classes were designed to compliment each other and not intended to be balanced against each other. So, any PvP that preserves PvE classes also has that imbalance baked in. Meaning, it’s not rock-paper-scissors, where each has an equal chance to win; it’s a deck of cards and only your face value (in this case, player class) decides the outcome. As examples, any dps class will strictly dominate ice wizard in dps; Holy Priest strictly dominates Water Shaman (by any objective measurement: priests are higher in dps, heal output, the effectiveness of the bonuses they provide to the group, etc). Any player that has played in group content sufficiently long enough will be able to provide their own examples.
In cooperative gameplay, it’s not strictly necessary that the classes be balanced. I’ll grant that Ice wizards are still viable, and even fun to play … though they are objectively being carried in group play (they receive the same rewards as any other party member, but their contribution to the group is less). Now, so long as people don’t bring up the fact that Ice Wizards suck by choice (they could always choose to be fire wizards, after all), everyone rolls merrily along.
Now, this isn’t (just) me trying to carry water for Ice Wizards. If you have 5 classes that do a thing (say, ‘perform in a dps role’), and they don’t all do the thing in exactly the same way, (which, lets admit it, is about as boring as watching the computer play itself in Pong) then someone’s thing (in this case, ‘relative dps output’) is going to be (at least situationally) better than someone else’s.
That ‘relative class balance’ problem only comes into play when you have to have each class be able to compete against each other. It’s not a small thing; it would require a round of changes to bring the classes ‘into balance’ (relative to each other), and then require ongoing maintenance as it would impact every class when a change is made to any class in the future.
Some players are against PvP on the premise that ‘it really doesn’t fit V&H’ because the game leans hard to cooperative gameplay (evidenced by the amount of group content, which has only increased with the addition of hordes and empowered ladders) but competitive gameplay is limited to just Raid Leaderboard. I’m in this camp (PvP doesn’t belong here), but mostly because:
1) balancing the classes so that they were competitive against each other would require fundamental changes to almost every class, and
2) at the end of the day, the number of customers you lose from adding PvP could potentially be higher than the number you gain by adding PvP.
So… forgive me for kinda taking your idea and throwing it on it’s head, but… I feel what your proposal does is take a part of the problem with PvP (addressing the problem relative gear/feat variants/buffs cause) and addresses it (by putting those items n an NPC that each has equal access to)… but ignores the problems of class balance.
What if, instead of preserving the classes, but letting them compete in an arena… what if… players entering the arena (or a raid, or even elders) decide if they want to play as their class, or as the NPC?
Ozul
Citizen
Platform
iOS
Trying to understand how pvp got into this discussion when it’s about an arena that’s like horde but has different difficulties for all types of players. Not pitting players against each other but to have the devs be creative in all the mechanics possible with hordes of enemies attacking the players or player. No leaderboards to this, and figured why not have a place with a permanent horde to do instead?
Sinjin
Jack Of All Trades
Platform
iOS
My apologies. When someone mentions ‘arena’, I typically conjure images of gladiatorial combat. Hell, even today’s arena’s with their “Monster Truck Pull’ and ‘X-games’ competitions… and combat (boxing matches, MMA, ‘wrestling’).
In a purely a game context, ‘arena’ has been used in so many PvE titles that ‘multiplayer online battle arena’ (MOBA) is now its own genre of games… and ‘arena’ is literally in the name. So, forgive me.
Carry on.
Ozul
Citizen
Platform
iOS
All good, just figured throwing it out there with causal and difficult content into an arena pve to make it survival of the fittest but have players understand gear system more. But you do bring a point about player identification on toons and the imbalances of some classes that might need a tweak or two, and thought that selecting gear purposes for support, tank, healer and dps would help. People do hybirds and neglect the gear and have a false pretense due to raiding with high dungeoneering. This way you earn gear to your liking and understand the basics of stats and glyphs. But hey all is good.
Ozul
Citizen
Platform
iOS
Massakari
Shaman
Characters
Massakari
Platform
Android
This type of group combat has been asked about and mentioned for a long time and we actually saw a form of it with "The Horde" in The Moors.
In fact.... one of the people who has mentioned it years ago and described it in great detail is now one of our Devs. So .... maybe wait and see what happens?
In fact.... one of the people who has mentioned it years ago and described it in great detail is now one of our Devs. So .... maybe wait and see what happens?