Dawnfire

Lumineer
Royal Guardian
Characters
Athon Dawnfire
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
I’m getting close to 50 platinum+heroic runs and have managed to get a single rare fabled piece of gear (for the set I don’t want) so far, which is quite disheartening to me, and instead of making me motivated to grind for it more, I’m leaning towards completely dropping it, which I believe was not the intention when they were created. While my experience is not representative, I know others too have trouble getting the fabled gear pieces they desire (or some just the standard gear pieces they’d like). The whole fabled drops really shine a light on why the current dropped RNG based gear system is just unfun, but let’s go over it, and then I’ll try to offer some solutions that could make it more user friendly, and more motivating to grind instead of demotivating.


1) Currently if you want a certain piece of fabled gear with stats you actually want you need a lot of factors to align. These are:​
  1. Proper rarity (epic at least for most high level players)​
  2. Proper gear piece -> only 6 piece of gear can be fabled, and it’s possible you’ll get pieces that you already own (like you only miss the belt but you keep getting helms/boots)​
  3. Proper stats -> With epic rarity that means 3 stats, even if you have a leeway there are almost always more bad stat combinations than good ones for your build​
  4. To be fabled -> majority of the gear that drops won’t be (while not representative, I’ve looted hundreds of rare/epic gear by now, so fable rate seems to be close to 1% maybe?)​
  5. Proper subclass/set -> It is possible to get set pieces of the subclass you don’t want, or inthe future if more sets are added, pieces from a set you don’t want​

If we did the math, which I won’t because it would be quite convoluted you’d end up with a really low number (something akin to 0,001%) of chance to actually get what you want. Is it possible? Yes. Will it happen? Most of the time, no. So why even add something to the game that is so unattainable? Why have so many random elements?

2) Following up all the randomness, comes the 2nd issue is the way you can obtain fabled gear. I’m sure many of you are familiar with ARPGs, where random gear such what we have V&H is a thing too. The big difference is that if you add a lot of RNG to your gear, you need to add either a lot of ways to earn it or spitting them out in huge quantities, so your odds of rolling a good one is better. The problem here is that you barely get any, so you can rarely roll the dice to get your desired gear.

3) I’m fairly certain the reason we have all this RNG is to keep players from earning their best in slot gear quick. However there is a huge difference between making something attainable with hard work vs something that is not. You’ve created a grind that is not possible for almost everyone. So instead of it motivating players to keep doing content to earn their desired gear, you simply demotivate the majority as the goal of earning the desired gear is nigh impossible. I could do 500 heroic runs and still walk away with nothing worthwhile. How motivating is that?

I think these 3 points show off fairly well, what the issues are with the current system. Solving them is not so difficult (albeit maybe on the programming side it could be). We simply need a pity timer, a token system. What this means is if you do X runs of raids (without getting anything worthwhile) you get a token, that you can exchange for something worthwhile. So the big difference between what we have now and this is that with a token system you are working towards something, even if the drops are bad, without the token system you are working towards nothing. This can be done in many ways, I’ll just share one idea of it. Let’s call this a Token of Heroic Deeds. You can exchange the Token of Heroic Deeds for an epic/legendary gear, in which you choose the stats, wether it’s fabled or not, which set should it be, so everything that is kinda random about it, becomes a choice (hence why it might be problematic from a programmer viewpoint). The idea:

Heroic raid tier will receive a repeatable reward track. It will work just like the previous raid tiers. Complete each raid 5 times to earn a Token of Heroic Deeds. What this means is that doing 35 runs will net you a single piece of gear of your desire. This will still be a huge grind to fully earn all you’d like but at least you’ll be working towards it slowly. New sets would also mean fresh grinding. I think this would be the most elegant solution, it is inline with the current system, easy to understand, and really makes people to rerun all the raids. It solves the issue of RNG while also solving the fear of people getting their desired gear too quick.

So this coupled with the Curse rework idea (check here), would offer a good way to make raids worthwhile to do even after you’ve earned your seasonal rewards. I’m very much aware that this doesn’t solve the issue of crafters not having access to fabled items, but let’s tackle one thing at a time (and yes I believe they should be craftable). Also those who worry craftable gear would be devalued, crafting gear would still be preferred for standard pieces, as this is a huge huge grind, also reinforcement runes still come from crafting, and not everyone wants set pieces. How would you feel about a system like this? Would you be more inclined to grind for gear?

P.S.: Add a token system for AS chest too. Instead of mount/toy drops, add a mount/toy token that you can exchange for any of the available ones you like. No more painful duplicates, also I'll resub :p
 

Grz

Reader
Platform
  1. Android
I believe this is to increase our play time more than to prevent us from gaining good things quick. It's in-line with how they road block main quests and leveling. You spend 95% of your time trying to get there and once you're there there's actually nothing much.

About the gears, would it be more simple if they increased drop rate and drop count then? In such a way that all elder bosses dropped 5 equips, blue bosses drop 3, common bounties, 2, etc. It would be feel more natural too.
 

Dawnfire

Lumineer
Royal Guardian
Characters
Athon Dawnfire
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
I believe this is to increase our play time more than to prevent us from gaining good things quick
Yes it is to increase playtime, but if the motivation of the player is to gain something valuable and you make it almost impossible (or at least unreasonable) to earn it, you are not increasing playtime, because people just won't bother with it.
About the gears, would it be more simple if they increased drop rate and drop count then? In such a way that all elder bosses dropped 5 equips, blue bosses drop 3, common bounties, 2, etc. It would be feel more natural too.
Compared to what we have now, even that would be better, however the things I don't like about the quantity solution are:
- You can still end up not getting anything you want for a long time, if you are unlucky (and seeing how many different factors are needed to earn something that you'd really want you'll be unlucky majority of the time)
- More clicking to pick items up, also your inventory will fill up quicker (you can ofc leave items on the ground but I think most people wouldn't like that)
- There's no end in sight for this kind of grind. I'm not saying there shouldn't exist such grind, like I'm fine with the rare EZ mounts/outfits where you can grind daily and you might end up earning them or not, but those are cosmetics. However for you build I think more control should be given, so you know that even if you get unlucky with drops every X runs (in my example every 35 heroic runs) you'll earn a piece of gear that gets you closer to your ideal setup. Again this would increase playtime way more for more people, because they could grind with an end in sight, with a guaranteed reward every now and then, in opposition what we have now, where you have no idea how many runs would it take to get what you want.
 
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Xantia

Arch Wizard
Characters
Xantia
Platform
  1. Android
  2. PC
if you add a lot of RNG to your gear, you need to add either a lot of ways to earn it or spitting them out in huge quantities, so your odds of rolling a good one is better. The problem here is that you barely get any, so you can rarely roll the dice to get your desired gear.
Agreed. The drop-rate for Epics outside of Heroic Raids is abysmal. If the game continues it's heavy use of RNG, then the Epic and Fabled drop-rates should be increased. So we feel motivated, instead of discouraged.

I’m fairly certain the reason we have all this RNG is to keep players from earning their best in slot gear quick. However there is a huge difference between making something attainable with hard work vs something that is not. You’ve created a grind that is not possible for almost everyone. So instead of it motivating players to keep doing content to earn their desired gear, you simply demotivate the majority as the goal of earning the desired gear is nigh impossible. I could do 500 heroic runs and still walk away with nothing worthwhile. How motivating is that?
EXACTLY.

Heroic raid tier will receive a repeatable reward track. It will work just like the previous raid tiers. Complete each raid 5 times to earn a Token of Heroic Deeds. What this means is that doing 35 runs will net you a single piece of gear of your desire. This will still be a huge grind to fully earn all you’d like but at least you’ll be working towards it slowly. New sets would also mean fresh grinding. I think this would be the most elegant solution, it is inline with the current system, easy to understand, and really makes people to rerun all the raids. It solves the issue of RNG while also solving the fear of people getting their desired gear too quick.
I really like this idea. I actually enjoy grinding, when there's an attainable goal in sight. 🙂👍

Players might also be limited, to one "Token of Heroic Deeds" per season... and/or... the power rating might continue to be dependent on RNG. So we might receive an Epic 985-995 or a Legendary 995-1005 (not sure the numbers are correct, but you get the idea). Which means even when we get the gear we want... we might try again, for a higher power rating. 🤓👍

P.S.: Add a token system for AS chest too. Instead of mount/toy drops, add a mount/toy token that you can exchange for any of the available ones you like. No more painful duplicates, also I'll resub :p
Yes please! 💯
 
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