A quick review of “hard” content

[Antavious]

Ok so basically we got the 95 elders, rift, raids and each EZ.

the EZ stuff: so we got some EZ highlights last year ladders in sugar sweet and oasis, an empowered one in vale, horde in Halloween and plumkiss in Christmas. All of this is well and good seasonal and some of it barely qualifies as hard content but that’s understandable as it’s ment for all inclusive play. I would say sugar sweet (despite the fact I can’t solo due to lock out mechanics) and horde where by far the easiest and empowered twilight the hardest since it’s the only other one I can’t solo (possibly can but it not interesting enough to try) still I get that most of this content is group required for most so it still belongs on this list.

rift: rift can’t be soloed in its entirety because of lock out mechanics which is fine other than that there is a minor learning curve to stay alive but after an attempt or two (or reading a guide) it’s no longer a big deal chances of losing here are minimal as long as you have a fairly balanced team this too is fine as the content is scaled for 75+

raids: raids Are scaled to a very wide range of players and are generally purposed to be serious content. due to the nature of dungeonering the scaling works quite well all things considered but toward the top there is some exclusion (understandable really people really shouldn’t expect serious wins until they are seriously developed) there have been a lot of nerfs to this content to make it acceptable for lower lvl/under developed players to still get a fair shake and at the top end players can keep pushing for nothing more than bragging rights and the thrill of toppling super op foes so this is probably the best stuff the game has to offer.

95 elders: this is the only content in the game only ment for the top teir players and frankly I find it a bit wanting and outdated (partly because you get more power in the form of better gear and enchantment after beating them wich I find crazy (Why do we need more power after? And not before these top bosses) all 4 are solo-able by select players/toons so don’t really provide much sport. I supopose if you are light on participation and/or talent then results can be wanting but that’s it.

I know people don’t like it when I say this but it has to be said all this content fails to challenge and any time content is released that can it inevitably receives swift nerfs. wile I try to be understanding as we do need content that caters to a wide range im always a little sad when the nerfs come in and find myself longing for content where I can actually lose. The closest one I guess to get there is raids at high lvl heroics but they are a little bitter sweet due to the fact not all players can play there and there are no rewards post heroic one and the D.lvl scaling stuff muddys it a bit. it’s odd though I guess I want to see heart break from fails and elation on victory for large groups of players but that currently isnt achieved by anything so I guess I want to see the devs come up with something that dose this but have no idea what that could be…

 

[Sinjin]

Ok so basically we got…

… Complete reboots of all the EZs, instanced 95s, heroic raids, empowered ladders, and <any group content> run solo.

Meanwhile
Ice Wiz got 23 pages of memes.


See? Everyone’s got an axe.

 

[Antavious]

Oh don’t get me wrong when I say it’s all solo-able it’s boring, slow and under rewarded for the effort involved but it’s also an eye opener about how the content isnt really close to needing a real top end team. Not if one can do the work of 5. another thing to note is that the game over uses tricks to lock out solo rather than challenge like timers,add mechanics and so on.

 

[Kitty the Hunter]

The problem with adding more hard content isn't the amount available, but the way in which attempts are made to put more of it into the game. Typically, content which is enjoyed by more casual players is made harder, players don't like this and complain and content is returned to be closer, but not entirely, to what is what before. Casual players are getting a slow creep into harder content which is naturally resisted.
For hard content to be accepted it can't be added to areas currently enjoyed by casual players. Although, if too many casual areas are lost to hard combat enough casual players may quit and if that doe not kill the game you may get what you are asking for.

 

[Antavious]

Perhaps your correct it seams all attempts by the devs to put in harder content have been resisted and it is entirely possible only a limited few will get any use out of such content. Still the future or V&H content development would benefit from something somewhere that is not held back by desire for a 100% win rate.

well at any rate the housing update can’t be too far off (crosses fingers) and we almost have enough raids in the stable to attempt a rotation or sorts. It’s entirely possible the devs will be looking at the next big thing soon enough maybe this type of thing will get some attention.

 

[Helos]

I would have to agree. Something difficult would be great.

 

[Elijah Lin]

Ummmm…

I can still remember the first horde battle in EU1… it was bloody. Cant forget how high the death toll was…


Its an interesting concept to think about… I get a sense… is it about pushing the status quo in VnH, where the hero doesnt always have to be victorious one? (regarding hard content)

Would the issue here being… once you reached max level, all content just becomes a grey area and unsatisfactory??

And also something about being in a comfort zone ?!?! I get a feeling once ppl get adapted to a certain challenge or hard content, it becomes a normal run??
No more being at the edge of the seat or being cautions??

 

[Grz]

I don't think a "hard content" where you're always at the edge of your sit- can't allow for a mistake or your chances of failing increases by orders of magnitude, belongs to VnH. Just look at how the community is, how the game looks and feels in general. A content to specifically please the 0.01% is not worth allocating resources to. But since H1 rank is the new gold rank now because of dungeoneering boost I'm sure you can always climb H100 or whatever but the real challenge there is trying not to quit out of boredom instead. Or find another game. Plenty out there targeting hardcore fans.

 

[Cthulhu]

World bosses with registration (nps). 3-5 lives yes, Voltan resurrect no. Locations Bevyn's C., Pools of A., Turnapin P., Blight B.

 

[Antavious]

Ummmm…

I can still remember the first horde battle in EU1… it was bloody. Cant forget how high the death toll was…


Its an interesting concept to think about… I get a sense… is it about pushing the status quo in VnH, where the hero doesnt always have to be victorious one? (regarding hard content)

Would the issue here being… once you reached max level, all content just becomes a grey area and unsatisfactory??

And also something about being in a comfort zone ?!?! I get a feeling once ppl get adapted to a certain challenge or hard content, it becomes a normal run??
No more being at the edge of the seat or being cautions??

It certainly dose for me but I am a extreme example so I get I kinda do it to myself. still I refuse to hold back to improve my own experience as using the tools made available to me to the best of my abilities is also part of what I’m after I just also want to put the results to better use and maybe if I’m really lucky to induce even better results through hardship. I throughly believe trial by fire is the best way to learn and improve so I definitely desire it.

 

[Elijah Lin]

It certainly dose for me but I am a extreme example so I get I kinda do it to myself. still I refuse to hold back to improve my own experience as using the tools made available to me to the best of my abilities is also part of what I’m after I just also want to put the results to better use and maybe if I’m really lucky to induce even better results through hardship. I throughly believe trial by fire is the best way to learn and improve so I definitely desire it.

Hahahah! Yeah, Im getting that vibe… I do feel someone elee have just mentioned, there are other games that do it better with a thrill and a challenge And what VnH isnt quite that place atm or… Im not sure if it will ever be, a thrill ride/challenge/max content for the max kinda thing

Only been a maxy character for a month or so… every step these 2 years has been challenging enough hehe!
It is certainly food for thought, Anta!

(And this part isnt directed @ Anta)
Note about raids H1-100. To be honest, after making it to Gold rank, I really have no desire to play it anymore, especially, having done Bronze and Silver is enough excitement for me. I have no issue for players who fancy “challenging” themselves all the way up the raids, by all means~

The difficult/challenge mechanics vs the time and effort to finish it just doesnt quite scream “fun” (maybe the first few times, yes, but after a few weeks…) or “Its so fun and Im loving this challenge, so Ill do this again and again and again… and again and- ”… once you know how it works? Would you? Is it still fun? =.= (getting a new relic is!!! Wont deny that!!)

Plus, Im a casual player (maybe even a lazy player) So, if you know how something works, slowly through time the difficulty level becomes predictable and after that, its just like dance dance revolution, no? Move away from hit and hit back (take that boss! hits the boss with a little priest mace!)

I think the question and issue could be, is how can one still be challenged (in a good and fun way, while experiencing and immersing into the content) after defeating a “challenging” content and STILL want to GO back to it?

Note: I dont hate raids. I actually think they have improved a lot since Otters released it one and half years ago (or is it two now?) Comparing then and now, I think they getting there, especially the dark pyramid raid. That was a fun raid to work out ^^ And I didnt get the purple banner…(could I put the effort and do it? Yes. Would it be fun? No. Challenging? Maybe.)
Also, I dont want the purple camel (which was the biggest obstacle) Challenge vs effort… does it shows??? I guess you can be the judge of that

 

[Antavious]

Fair points can’t argue but I never like accepting that villagers’s and hero’s is simply a deficient game for some compared to other mmorpgs There is potentially room to change and correct. We just need to keep talking about it/asking for it rather than simply going to another rival game.

 

[Renaiss]

We just need to keep talking about it/asking for it rather than simply going to another rival game.

I agree that we all should speak up about changes we'd like to see in this game. Sadly, I also understand why some players do move on to other games. Whether you're a hero looking for greater risks & rewards, or a villager who wants more to do than chores & clicking something every minute, it's hard to be patient when you don't know if the changes you'd like will ever happen.

I think one of the reasons a lot of players (including me) complain when challenging content gets added to event zones is because it's not really optional. Players who want the better EZ rewards have to do the content, at least once. This is totally unfair to players who don't enjoy combat, new players, and those with average gear. After all, they're not called "combat events".

Since raids are level scaled and are designed for those who enjoy combat, this seems like a good place to incorporate higher risks with better rewards. There are options for group size, so maybe having timer options, with the rewards adjusted accordingly, would help. Players who want the raid to be harder could choose a shorter time with a larger reward, and those who want an easier raid could get an extra 5 minutes with a smaller reward. So far, it seems that each season of raids has a new tier that players have to complete to get the same rewards as the previous season. Instead of making each season harder & more time consuming, maybe the new tiers could be optional, with their own set of rewards for those who choose to do them.

Even though it's not for me, I agree that there should be some optional, hard content for those who want that challenge. As a "villager", the only reason I didn't quit this game within a few weeks is the village projects. Working on those projects isn't "fun", but it is challenging and provides a worthwhile reward. I don't know if this would be possible, but what if the village training yard was built through combat instead of gathering, etc.? It would have to start with something to attack (level scaled), and each level would need to be harder to complete. When it's maxed, there could be something that really puts up a fight! It could be a fun way for players to get to know their neighbors, and give them something "heroic" to do while helping their village.

Keep speaking up for what you want or it may never happen. At least you don't have to wait long for the new raid season!

 

[Shash]

I have been following this and based on comment I think rather then something harder it is the game needs to be more challenging for the more developed players. Perhaps something that isn't the same every time a player runs. Something that uses skills a players has but if player doesn't have the right skills they must be developed or figured out to achieve success. I am a solo player that enjoy the game how it is but I don't understand all the buffs and skills and probably never will and I can see that players like Ant would want more. I know there there are more players that would enjoy more challenging fights.

 

[Cosmickitty]

I don’t think hard content should be in ez, but the new rift zone seems like it would be a great place to expand for new hard content.

id love to see something like horde, but it get stronger each round endlessly. Make it drop gold that gets higher each round or something.

 

[Egelin]

Antavious, I believe that the sole reason that you can solo all these hard content is that you are playing the most defensive class that can also heal itself constantly as long as it has enough mana. A good ol' nerf to how often we can use consumables would fix all the boring content for you . Ah and maybe an enrage timer for bosses that will make them go mad if you take too long to kill them. It happens in a lot of games.

Jokes aside, I really enjoy testing my own limits, trying out new builds and new ways to do content. Sadly, there is a lack of hard content to do this in V&H, mostly because raids go on a break for 2-3 months and we are left with only level 95 elders and rift. I would enjoy some content that we can repeat and that we have an incentive to repeat. Raid is currently the only content that provides this.

I don't think that events should be where this is problem is addressed. Events are for casual fun and cosmetics, and usually a decent introduction to group content for new players. I think events have a huge impact on player retention for new players because they can join other players even on their first day and get a more comprehensive feeling of the game.

 

[Kitty the Hunter]

A good ol' nerf to how often we can use consumables would fix all the boring content for you

This is a good idea. A simple way to make end game and raids more challenging would be to put limits on consumables or gear while running the highest levels. Players who want challenging content are usually the same players with the best gear and consumables, but it is those very same things which take away the challenge.

 

[Antavious]

It seams to be a common misconception that my build somehow relies on consumables, this isn’t true I generally despise consumables as they are terribly inefficient. I use fewer mana pots than I can make myself with only 1 toons garden and I only use healing pots when I have no healers around and am in a really tight spot again nothing sourced away from the free ones I get naturally (I never run out because you get free ones all over the place and I don’t need many at all). I’m 100% f2p.

 

[Egelin]

It seams to be a common misconception that my build somehow relies on consumables, this isn’t true I generally despise consumables as they are terribly inefficient. I use fewer mana pots than I can make myself with only 1 toons garden and I only use healing pots when I have no healers around and am in a really tight spot again nothing sourced away from the free ones I get naturally (I never run out because you get free ones all over the place and I don’t need many at all). I’m 100% f2p.

I am not saying you are chugging down mana potions constantly. I am just saying that with lightning warrior, you can just sustain yourself forever as long as you have consumables to use at hand. Of course in group play you wont use as much. Most people do fine without using any potions. However in solo, fights will go longer and you will start relying on potions in such fights. Other classes cannot do such a thing. They will crumble under the incoming damage. Its wrong to generalize all content as "possible to solo" just because the most tanky class can do it no matter how long it would take.
Its a design flow on our developers side to give some classes so much self heal without penalty. It removes the purpose of healers most of the time.

 

[Cosmickitty]

Oooo I would love an enrage timer

that said, I’m a holy, sometimes for fun I attack elders for a bit if I show up early…. I guess I could solo them since I just get bored and walk off. definitely doesn’t make me better than squishy dps players, makes me tanky heals. There are a billion players more skilled than I am